Mort "Herm's secure .....

[Mr. Laz]

in his job to go for 2 pts and the win anytime he feels like ... this coach in kansas city, Clark Hunt, believes in him and believes in going with young players"


Herm/Carl '09 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


yeaaaah baby


from NFL Countdown show on ESPN

[Mr. Laz]

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud

There's no way LJ will be with the Chiefs in 2009.

I'll be shocked if Herm allows him to play in 2008.

And furthermore, you're just speculating.

and if i'm correct are you prepared to concede the point that Herm is ultimately the offensive problem?

[DaneMcCloud]

Originally Posted by Laz

and if i'm correct are you prepared to concede the point that Herm is ultimately the offensive problem?

I'm prepared not to speculate

[Zouk]

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud

Gailey wasn't with the Steeler's in the early 90's. He was the WR coach from 1994-1995 and the OC from 1997-1998.

My mistake.

But the 1997 Steelers were 1st in the league in rushing attempts. The 1998 Steelers were 8th.

http://www.pro-football-reference.co...s/pit/1997.htm

[Mr. Laz]

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud

I'm prepared not to speculate

i imagine not

[Brock]

Originally Posted by Laz

and if i'm correct are you prepared to concede the point that Herm is ultimately the offensive problem?

I'm not. The offensive line and quarterback position were, IMO.

[FringeNC]

Originally Posted by Zouk

Right now - sure. But Herm hired Chan because they share a vision of what the offense will be 2 or 3 years down the line, and it is definitely one that runs more often than what we've done the last 3 games. We will not be the Saints.

His reputation at Ga Tech was conservative. Can't blame Herm for that. Not that it will stop the conspiracy theorists down the road.

http://www.stingtalk.com/forums/arch...p/t-23382.html

I know that there was talk of Gailey bringing a power running philosophy here, but as far as I can tell from watching Gailey's teams of the past, he has a finesse running philosophy. Very odd -- we hired a guy who specialized in finesse running to run a power running attack, and now we are running a finesse passing spread offense.

By the way, this offense works.

[chiefzilla1501]

But the deal is, how many times was Herm criticized for refusing to run a different offense? But he's doing that right now. And rather than getting a single ounce of praise, he's being criticized for that? As if he has absolutely no control over the decision? The Chiefs have lost 3 straight games. It would have been very easy for Herm to say "this arena ball crap isn't doing enough to win us games." But he hasn't. He's let Chan do his thing, something everyone insisted up and down he would never do. Not you, necessarily, but the majority of pure Herm haters.

So giving up control is a much bigger deal than people suggest it is and I don't think it's because he was backed into the wall. Why would he be, given that his job was never on the line to begin with? But I think people discount how much energy and attitude Herm has instilled in this organization. Last week, there was a report that the Browns lost to the Broncos b/c the team quit. In KC, the Chiefs may have lost, but their players were playing full-out an entire game. This offense would not have resurged like this without motivation and enthusiasm. And if Herm didn't keep a good locker room, then the losing would have been a disease that led to fights, ugly words, etc.... Take a look at Marvin Lewis' locker room. They have a ton more talent than KC, but their locker room is a mess.

I've been to work in a few jobs. Ever have a job where you have to push yourself to wake up in the morning? And one where you jump out of bed and clap your hands? Motivation is a huge thing. These kids are motivated to play, they're practicing hard to get better, and they're playing tough football and together.

I'm not suggesting Herm deserves a medal. But in spite of all that, he doesn't even get a shred of credit? And those who even bring that stuff up get labeled as Herm lovers?

Herm haters are backed into a wall here. This team is improving and they're playing with a lot of fire, and the haters are finding any kind of excuse not to acknowledge it. Again, I don't expect anyone to say that he's a playoff coach--I don't know that he is either. But in terms of what he's doing now for the rebuild, how can anyone possibly claim that his direction isn't leading to progress?

Originally Posted by FringeNC

No -- I do give Herm credit for FINALLY seeing that running the ball up the middle DOES NOT WORK. Do you really think the offensive improvement is anything other than changing schemes? If we went back to Herm's old run first and second offense, would we be seeing any improvement on offense?

This is a bizarre situation we are in -- Herm running a wide-open offense. Had Herm done that the whole time he was here, he wouldn't be 1-18 in his last 19 games. Herm went out of his way to make the point that he didn't like pass happy offenses. [the circus idiocy] Now we are throwing it 40 times a game, and not because we are behind. I have no idea how we evaluate Edwards now because his defining trait -- offensive schemes that were "play not to lose" -- he's gutted. Is this Herm version 2.0, or will he return to the play not to lose style once the heat is off?

[Fish]

Originally Posted by Laz

the idea that this is someone Herm's master plan is complete BS

why would he dump Trent Green and that entire offensive game plan the way he did if he really want to just go back to another type of spread offense?

if Trent Green was the problem then change QB's but keep the rest.


no ..... he imploded it because he wanted to and now he is being force back into it because of the major suckitude of the RRPP offense and injuries.


no way are we running this offense without the complete implosion we experienced.

Herm didn't dump Green and the entire offensive game plan. We tried to run the same offense, but we couldn't without the offensive line that DV had. It should have been obvious that we couldn't keep up with the same offensive output with the difference in offensive line. We ran R2P2 because that's all we could run with the personnel. Herm didn't implode anything, that was going to happen regardless of who was calling plays. Solari certainly didn't help matters, though. The coaching staff definitely deserves every bit of criticism for not having replacements in place that would have allowed us more flexibility in playcalling. But to say they've been "forced" into doing what they're doing now can definitely be argued.

IMO, people are putting way too much emphasis on playcalling, and not recognizing the fact that Thigpen's play is allowing them to open the offense up where they couldn't do so before. Chan is opening things up because Thigpen is making it work. He's customizing an offense that works for who we have on the field, and we're finally seeing some success. The better Thiggy does, the more we can open it up. If Thigpen wasn't executing it so consistently, then it would look like crap and people would be moaning about why we're trying something that won't work.

[dallaschiefsfan]

Herm deserves ZERO defenders. The minute we look just a LITTLE competitive...like we might be able to make a run at the playoffs, Herm will revert back to "play not to lose". He has no stomach to play the way we're playing on offense. He's only doing it because he's desperate and wants to keep his job. Mark it. This offense goes away the minute we get competitive. And everyone who believes otherwise is irrationally optimistic in regards to Herm.

[Reerun_KC]

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud

I'm prepared not to speculate

Wierd, that is all these posts on on this message board is pure speculation from us fans...

Like Zouk, KC Fish, you or myself have any inside knowledge of the what the freak is going on... All we can do is watch the games, listen to press conferences, see the injuries lists and look at the over all history of the coach, then make our own speculative judgements about it...


Neither of us are right or wrong, its all an opinion. Some like Herm and will defend him to his grave, others think he is a fraud and will continue as such...

Still its all speculation on us fans part.

[Mr. Laz]

Originally Posted by Brock

I'm not. The offensive line and quarterback position were, IMO.

for years we blamed the offensive line and quarterbacks under marty shottenheimer .... fans tried to blame everyone BUT marty.

we went through countless QB,LT,RB,Offensive Coord


when in reality all those positions were merely a symptom of Marty's inability to handle the offensive side of the ball.

i see a very similar situation with herm now.


people claimed our offensive line wasn't good enough under Herm ..... but all the sudden it became good enough once we changed the offensive philosophy.

our WR,RB,QB weren't good enough


but now .... apparently they are??

thigpen sucked ...... changed offensive .... thigpen is now being whispered as a possible QBoTF?

this offensive line wasn't good enough with Pro Bowl running back larry johnson carrying the ball but now it's good enough with Dante "whothehellamI" Savage running behind it?

the naivete' of some fans never cease to amaze



if it walks like a duck .......

[dallaschiefsfan]

Originally Posted by KC Fish

Herm didn't dump Green and the entire offensive game plan. We tried to run the same offense, but we couldn't without the offensive line that DV had. It should have been obvious that we couldn't keep up with the same offensive output with the difference in offensive line. We ran R2P2 because that's all we could run with the personnel. Herm didn't implode anything, that was going to happen regardless of who was calling plays. Solari certainly didn't help matters, though. The coaching staff definitely deserves every bit of criticism for not having replacements in place that would have allowed us more flexibility in playcalling. But to say they've been "forced" into doing what they're doing now can definitely be argued.

IMO, people are putting way too much emphasis on playcalling, and not recognizing the fact that Thigpen's play is allowing them to open the offense up where they couldn't do so before. Chan is opening things up because Thigpen is making it work. He's customizing an offense that works for who we have on the field, and we're finally seeing some success. The better Thiggy does, the more we can open it up. If Thigpen wasn't executing it so consistently, then it would look like crap and people would be moaning about why we're trying something that won't work.

This is all just so wrong-headed thinking. You're trying to tell me that if Vermeil stayed one more year, the results would have been the same? Seriously?

I don't even know how to respond to your second paragraph...because you're making the case that herm-ball doesn't work for this team and its personnel. Herm wants to play HIS style of ball...this is purely a desperation move on his part and it's working...because Gailey is a professional guy who has game. Herm is a VERY good secondary coach that has somehow risen through the ranks of the coaching world because of his linkage to Dungy, Kiffin, etc and some irrational reputation he's garnered for being a Defensive-guru...which he's clearly not.

[Fish]

Originally Posted by dallaschiefsfan

Herm deserves ZERO defenders. The minute we look just a LITTLE competitive...like we might be able to make a run at the playoffs, Herm will revert back to "play not to lose". He has no stomach to play the way we're playing on offense. He's only doing it because he's desperate and wants to keep his job. Mark it. This offense goes away the minute we get competitive. And everyone who believes otherwise is irrationally optimistic in regards to Herm.

So you think Herm is only doing this to save his job? But you still think that when this offense shows consistent success he'll intentionally change it to something that doesn't work? Are you serious? You're saying that he's doing this to save his job, but when it gets to the point that he has saved his job, he'll revert back to some other offense that may cause his job to be in doubt again?

That's some Herm-hater logic right there.......

[Reerun_KC]

Originally Posted by Laz

if it walks like a duck .......

IT's a Beaver! /Chiefsplanet

[Reerun_KC]

Originally Posted by KC Fish

So you think Herm is only doing this to save his job? But you still think that when this offense shows consistent success he'll intentionally change it to something that doesn't work? Are you serious? You're saying that he's doing this to save his job, but when it gets to the point that he has saved his job, he'll revert back to some other offense that may cause his job to be in doubt again?

That's some Herm-hater logic right there.......

What gives you proof over the last 7 years that Herm will continue with this hybird spread offense?