SI : Chiefs have a problem and his name is Dwayne Bowe

[pr_capone]

His performance so far this season has been underwhelming. He is in a position to clock in his worst performance in the NFL so far and is projecting to have 54 receptions for 586 yards w/6TD.

Is his problem that defenses are keying in on him... or is it that, as suggested by Greg Bedard, that Bowe has lost a step and is no longer a top tier WR?

http://mmqb.si.com/2013/10/11/greg-b...preview-notes/

6. The Chiefs will win a lot of games with their current formula: good defense that takes the ball away (15 times so far) and an offense that doesn’t turn it over (just five) for an NFL-leading plus-10 in giveaways/takeaways. But to beat the good teams, they’re going to have to start stretching the field. Defenses know QB Alex Smith is overly conservative, so they’re dropping a safety down and playing a lot of man. The Chiefs have a big problem with receiver Dwayne Bowe. Not sure what has happened to him, but he lacks explosion and can’t beat man coverage anymore. Defenses don’t fear him at all.

[BlackHelicopters]

Is this the Chief for life, not money thread?

[stevieray]

...this never would've happened if he didn't point at his name...

[chiefzilla1501]

Originally Posted by The Bad Guy

Why does Eli Manning constantly get a pass?

He's ****ing awful and has regressed worse than any "future HOF" QB I can ever remember. He's not 40 years old here. This should be his absolute prime.

Aaron Rodgers gets sacked a shit ton and still can direct an offense.

Brady is playing with NFL strike level replacement WR's and he's 4-1.

Eli Manning completely sucks. His team sucks, but he's front and center on the complete "I blow" bandwagon.

He won 2 Super Bowls, and yes, he deserves a ton of credit for those wins even if he had a good supporting cast. He also gets a pass because regular season be damned, there are few QBs I'd want above him in the postseason.

Eli and Rodgers are two different QBs. Rodgers and Peyton are two guys who can carry a bad team on their back, but their style of play is flawed too. They play so up-tempo that the team isn't built to be elite in the 4th quarter. Eli is what I call an elite game manager. But to be successful, he has to have a good running game to help control the tempo of the game. That's not too much to ask for. Right now, his running game is an absolute abortion.

[notorious]

Originally Posted by AustinChief

The problem is... Bowe has never really been great at getting separation consistently and now he has a QB that does his damndest to not throw to a covered WR. Bowe thrived on our past crappy QBs throwing into coverage so he can muscle the catch.

/thread

[doomy3]

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501

He won 2 Super Bowls, and yes, he deserves a ton of credit for those wins even if he had a good supporting cast. He also gets a pass because regular season be damned, there are few QBs I'd want above him in the postseason.

Eli and Rodgers are two different QBs. Rodgers and Peyton are two guys who can carry a bad team on their back, but their style of play is flawed too. They play so up-tempo that the team isn't built to be elite in the 4th quarter. Eli is what I call an elite game manager. But to be successful, he has to have a good running game to help control the tempo of the game. That's not too much to ask for. Right now, his running game is an absolute abortion.

"Elite game managers" don't throw the ball to the other team as much as they throw it to their own team.

[chiefzilla1501]

Originally Posted by doomy3

"Elite game managers" don't throw the ball to the other team as much as they throw it to their own team.

Game management is about controlling the tempo. It's what the Chiefs are doing now. It's how the Jets made two straight NFC championships with Sanchez. It's how Baltimore won last year's Super Bowl. You can't do that if your running game is the worst in the league.

And again, Big Ben and Eli have had some miserable turnover-ridden seasons. But in the playoffs, they are incredible game managers. They take what the game gives them, control the tempo, and then dominate the 4th quarter.

[O.city]

Eli got incredible lucky to win 2 SBs, based on two flukey plays. He's absolutely not an elite qb, he's much too erratic

[Saccopoo]

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501

A terrible Giants team and a future HOFer Eli = 0-6
A tremendous Chiefs team and a solid enough Alex Smith = 5-0

Yep, but you stated:

I think Ben and Eli are in a much different league than Alex, because they've proven they can win plenty of games where they didn't get much help.

Remember that this was a 2-14 team just last season. These same guys that Alex Smith is working with now were directly associated with the epic shitfest of last season. Now, with them being 5-0, the rest of these 2-14 guys are world beaters and it's Alex Smith that's the standard bearer of mediocrity?

Smith is 26-5-1 over the last three seasons, and that includes QB'ing teams that were coming off of horrendously bad seasons like the 2011 49ers and the 2013 Chiefs. That sure makes a case of him being able to win plenty of games. In comparison, both Raperburger and Eli are coming off recent Super Bowl victories and yet are QB'ing two of the worst teams in the league this season.

So, which is it? A mediocre guy like Smith takes the reigns of tragically bad teams and leads them to division first place status, or two Hall of Fame QB's with recent SB winning teams leading their teams into the cellar?

[RealSNR]

Originally Posted by mattschiefs

Bowe has Always had games where he didn't do much ALWAYS

2010 his best year in the 2 games combined against the Chargers he had 2 catches for 16 yards He also got shutout against Denver that year.

2011 he had 2 games with 2 catches for 17 yards

Last year he got shutout against the Bengals

But yes this is new with Smith

Calvin Johnson has shutout games all the time with Stafford.

[chiefzilla1501]

Originally Posted by O.city

Eli got incredible lucky to win 2 SBs, based on two flukey plays. He's absolutely not an elite qb, he's much too erratic

The flukey play to David Tyree was a superhuman effort to escape pressure (and even if he doesn't catch that, it still would have been 4th and 5). And it doesn't change the fact that he then marched the team into the end zone.

Not sure what other flukey play you're talking about. But 2 fluke plays shouldn't erase that 5 of the 6 games, Eli played terrific football. I'm bothered when people say any QB could win Super Bowls with their supporting cast. I don't think many of the elite QBs would have won a Super Bowl with that cast. It's because people find efficiency unimpressive. And that's a shame, because the efficiency model has been just as successful as the explosive offense model.

[Saccopoo]

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501

There isn't a single person outside of KC who would take Alex Smith over Eli Manning, and it's not even close.

I would. All day long.

Eli Manning, with the exception of what someone could consider an epiphany level moment in the playoffs in 2011, has consistently been a .500ish level performing QB that has been supported by a very good defense, wide receiver corps and running game. Prior to the 2007 SB, there were whispers of the concept of "bust."

Now that the Giants don't have that running game or defense, Manning is being exposed. Go look at what he is directly responsible for in terms of the Giants and their record this current football season. The guy is an absolute interception machine who is making horrible decisions with the ball.

Some people around here get completely enamored by what's on the back of the jersey and what the east coast media bias wants them to hear.

[notorious]

Bowe has the ability to make circus catches while covered.

Alex Smith doesn't throw circus balls very often.

[RealSNR]

Originally Posted by Saccopoo

I would. All day long.

Eli Manning, with the exception of what someone could consider an epiphany level moment in the playoffs in 2011, has consistently been a .500ish level performing QB that has been supported by a very good defense, wide receiver corps and running game. Prior to the 2007 SB, there were whispers of the concept of "bust."

Now that the Giants don't have that running game or defense, Manning is being exposed. Go look at what he is directly responsible for in terms of the Giants and their record this current football season. The guy is an absolute interception machine who is making horrible decisions with the ball.

Some people around here get completely enamored by what's on the back of the jersey and what the east coast media bias wants them to hear.

We've never seen this reincarnated form of Alex Smith play without a solid running game and elite defense. We have no idea what he would look like.

Probably wouldn't throw as many picks as Eli is, but INTs aren't everything.

[chiefzilla1501]

Originally Posted by Saccopoo

Yep, but you stated:



Remember that this was a 2-14 team just last season. These same guys that Alex Smith is working with now were directly associated with the epic shitfest of last season. Now, with them being 5-0, the rest of these 2-14 guys are world beaters and it's Alex Smith that's the standard bearer of mediocrity?

Smith is 26-5-1 over the last three seasons, and that includes QB'ing teams that were coming off of horrendously bad seasons like the 2011 49ers and the 2013 Chiefs. That sure makes a case of him being able to win plenty of games. In comparison, both Raperburger and Eli are coming off recent Super Bowl victories and yet are QB'ing two of the worst teams in the league this season.

So, which is it? A mediocre guy like Smith takes the reigns of tragically bad teams and leads them to division first place status, or two Hall of Fame QB's with recent SB winning teams leading their teams into the cellar?

Alex Smith isn't QBing a 2-14 team from 2012. He is QBing the 7-9 team in 2011 (that could have been even better, if not for the poorly conditioned first 2 games, and having to play behind Tyler Palko for the other games).

I said these guys can win regardless of supporting cast. I'll make one exception. They need some hint of a Running Back. Their Running Backs are embarrassingly bad. I guarantee if you give both those guys a decent RB, they're elite QBs again. And with those guys, I don't take much stock in the regular season. They've both taken bad regular season teams to Super Bowls.

[Ace Gunner]

Originally Posted by AustinChief

The problem is... Bowe has never really been great at getting separation consistently and now he has a QB that does his damndest to not throw to a covered WR. Bowe thrived on our past crappy QBs throwing into coverage so he can muscle the catch.

no, that isn't true. Smiff doesn't spend ALL GAME throwing at tight spots, that is true. But, he will do it -- hence, we see him throw into tight cover during the fourth qtrs. It's working for this team.