If I'm Manning, I retire now.

[Chiefs Pantalones]

I wouldn't wanna play anymore if it's gonna be at a level I'm not accustomed to playing. Much respect though. Great career. But father time is undefeated.

[RealSNR]

Peyton Manning:

1 SB ring against Rex ****ing Grossman

Eli Manning:

2 SB rings, both against Tom Brady, a future HOFer

[Sure-Oz]

The tear certainly explains why he's been limited. I bet when healthy he can do what he did in the 1st half. I think he returns

[Hootie]

Originally Posted by RunKC

How many playoff wins? SB comebacks?

Hootie just stop you're just making this worse

Zero Super Bowl comebacks. Zero Super Bowl rings post Spygate

[Hootie]

Originally Posted by SNR

Peyton Manning:

1 SB ring against Rex ****ing Grossman

Eli Manning:

2 SB rings, both against Tom Brady, a future HOFer

Tom Brady beat McNabb and Delhomme. He beat Warner when he threw an entire 1 postseason TD pass.

All three games aided by Spygate, the biggest cheating scandal the NFL has ever had.

So, essentially, Eli > Tom by this metric and it's a toss up between Peyton and Brady although Peyton is 2-0 against Brady in the playoffs since Spygate with a Super Bowl, which Tom does not have.

He also beat THE Tom Brady just last year in the AFCCG

[RealSNR]

Originally Posted by Hootie 2.0

Tom Brady beat McNabb and Delhomme. He beat Warner when he threw an entire 1 postseason TD pass.

All three games aided by Spygate, the biggest cheating scandal the NFL has ever had.

So, essentially, Eli > Tom by this metric and it's a toss up between Peyton and Brady although Peyton is 2-0 against Brady in the playoffs since Spygate with a Super Bowl, which Tom does not have.

He also beat THE Tom Brady just last year in the AFCCG

So I'm glad we're in agreement, then.

Aaron Rodgers is more impressive than the both of them.

[Hootie]

SVP and Russillo had a very rational take on the situation.

[MahiMike]

Originally Posted by Hootie 2.0

Zero Super Bowl comebacks. Zero Super Bowl rings post Spygate

He'll have another ring in a few weeks.

[Hootie]

Originally Posted by MahiMike

He'll have another ring in a few weeks.

He should. No excuse not to

[MahiMike]

The last couple years I wanted Peyton to get a ring so he would retire. Now I want him to play 5 more years!

Go Chiefs!!!!!

[TEX]

Originally Posted by MahiMike

The last couple years I wanted Peyton to get a ring so he would retire. Now I want him to play 5 more years!

Go Chiefs!!!!!

This

EXCEPT until the Chiefs figure out a way to beat him, I'm not too confident. Deal is the Colts D made it look EASY. Why can't the Chiefs do that?

[Red Dawg]

Originally Posted by Rausch

He's the worst playoff QB in NFL history.

Most 1 and done's in NFL history.

Most playoff losses in NFL history.

And he's been SPOILED with freakish offensive talent his whole career...

Him and Brady have both been spoiled also by playing in such crappy divisions their whole careers. Their stories would have been alot different if they had played in tougher divisions that challenged them.

[Amnorix]

Originally Posted by Hootie 2.0

he rattled off 9 straight playoff wins in the Spygate era to start his career. It skews the numbers.

You really, really don't seem to understand what Spygate was, so let me just clarify a bit.

Fact #1 -- stealing signals of various types has ALWAYS been in the NFL. I'm not saying all teams do it, but lots of teams/coaches do and did. The traditional method, of course, is either keeping an eye on the other guys signals and trying to decipher them, or getting players from the former team (sometimes JUST before you play them) and having them tell you what those signals mean. This is PERFECTLY LEGAL AND ALWAYS HAS BEEN.

Originally Posted by Roger Goodell

scouting NFL signals is commonplace and legal

Fact #2 -- videotaping by opposing teams under most circumstances has also been perfectly legal for years and years. The tricky part is taping SIGNALS. Ok. That was ALSO widely done, and universally ignored.

How do I know? Because Jimmy Johnson knew all about it. He DID it. He learned about it from who? Marty Schottenheimer's Kansas City Chiefs!

As Jimmy Johnson said though "it's not possible to tape signals from the press box when the team is on the wrong side." In other words, you can't tape their signals but they can tape yours, and it's 100% legal.

Jimmy Johnson also went on to elaborate by saying that the idea was given to him by then KC Chiefs sideline coach to tape from the sidelines. "You merely have to put an extra camera man beside the rest of them."

It’s not known when someone first filmed coaching signals. It goes back at least to 1990 when Marty Schottenheimer coached Kansas City. Both on a Fox pregame show and on WFAN, a New York radio station, Jimmy Johnson, who coached the Dallas Cowboys to two Super Bowl Championships, said he also had staffers tape opposing coaches.

Johnson said teams could tape signals from the press box, but sometimes the press box was on the wrong side of the field. In that case, the cameraman filmed from the sidelines. Johnson, who also had interns search other teams’ trash for discarded notes and game plans, said taping coaches wasn’t worth the effort and abandoned it.

Johnson learned the procedure in 1990 from Mark Hatley, a Kansas Cityscout, who taught him how Marty Schottenheimer’s Chiefs did it. Johnson praised one Schottenheimer assistant, Howard Mudd, as “the best in the entire league at stealing signals.” During much of the current decade, including their Super Bowl year, Mudd worked for the Indianapolis Colts.

Fact #3 -- The real problem for Belichick and the Patriots wasn't that they filmed signals in 2001, or 2003, or 2004, it's that the NFL came out with a relatively clear (to most people but apparently not Belichick) memo in 2006 which made it clear that videotaping signals was not permitted

In September 2006, the NFL sent out a memo to all teams reinforcing the NFL rule prohibiting video spying. In that memo, the NFL's senior vice president for football operations, Ray Anderson, wrote: "Video taping of any type, including but not limited to taping of an opponent's offensive or defensive signals, is prohibited on the sidelines, in the coaches' booth, in the locker room, or at any other locations accessible to club staff members during the game."

And then BB ignored that rule, for reasons that don't make much sense.

But note the timing of it. September, 2006. If the Patriots had stopped then, the NFL would never have cared about any prior taping, by them or any other team that did it.

Note also the absurdity of the rule. It's ok to steal signals in some ways, but not others?

As the New York Times pointed out:

An N.F.L. team could place an army of lip readers on the sideline to try to steal messages from the opposing side. It could fill a row of seats behind the other team’s bench with espionage experts to decipher all the sideline cues. It could have scouts in the press box aiming binoculars at every opposing coach, scribbling notes to match with game tape to glean what all the signals mean.

All that is allowed, and maybe some of it is done. But videotaping the other sideline? Do not think about it.

And therein lies one of the quirky twists to what may already be the biggest cheating scandal in the N.F.L.’s history, a chapter that began when the Patriots were caught taping the Jets’ sideline last September.

The issue is not stealing signals. That is allowed, “and it is done quite widely,” Commissioner Roger Goodell said recently.

The issue, rather, is the method of acquiring the signals.

And yeah, I know, tl;dr, but you can rant on and on about cheating and asterisks, but honestly, it's absurd and doesn't phase me a bit. Once you properly understand the "scandal" and put everythign in context, it's pretty damn clear that it's really a big hullaballoo over not much at all.

Or, as Bill Cowher (who the Patriots beat not once but TWICE on the way to Super Bowls):

“We didn’t lose the game because of any 'Spygate,' because of them having any additional things,” Cowher told 93.7 The Fan on Wednesday. “[If] they’re guilty of anything they’re guilty of arrogance because they were told not to do something but it was something everybody does. They got caught doing it with a camera.”

Cowher, who coached the Steelers from 1992-2006, said what the Patriots did happened regularly in the NFL before the league allowed coordinators to relay plays to their quarterback and defensive signal-caller via a helmet radio.

“Stealing someone’s signals was a part of the game and everybody attempted to do that. We had people that always tried to steal signals,” said Cowher, whose 2004 team won 16 consecutive games before losing to the Patriots in the AFC title game. “What happened when we lost that game is they outplayed us. It had nothing to do with stealing signals or cheating or anything else.”

http://espn.go.com/blog/pittsburgh-s...act-of-spygate

[Amnorix]

Originally Posted by Tuckdaddy

Him and Brady have both been spoiled also by playing in such crappy divisions their whole careers. Their stories would have been alot different if they had played in tougher divisions that challenged them.

That has been mentioned. Problem is the Patriots have approximately the exact same win percentage both in division and out of division.

The AFC East hasn't been great, but it hasn't been god-awful either. Some other divisions have been consistently better over the last 10 years, but some have been worse, and others about the same.

[Amnorix]

Originally Posted by Hootie 2.0

and besides, when Brady got injured Matt Cassel, a guy not even good enough for USC, led the Pats to 11 wins.

This has been explained to you, repeatedly.

It was 5 wins fewer than Brady had the prior year, and was against a god-awful weak schedule. Like the AFC North this year, all team's records were inflated by that fact. The 11-5 record DID NOT qualify them for the playoffs. They lost on a tie-breaker to the 11-5 Dolphins.

So they went from soul-crushing undefeated team until the Super Bowl, to didn't make the playoffs. And you somehow cite that as proof Brady isn't awesome. Good God.

You really need to stop. You keep regurgitating the same "facts", which don't support your cause.

[Hootie]

Brady 16
Cassel 11

Peyton 12
Kerry/Curtis 2

still a discrepancy, guy