Chiefs Paylor: Communication, management style were factors in firing of Dorsey - Page 4

Quesadilla Joe · 03:11 PM

A lot of new information/quotes in this article...

http://www.kansascity.com/sports/nfl...158155634.html

Spoiler!

The Chiefs have compiled a 43-21 record the last four years thanks to the work of coach Andy Reid and general manager John Dorsey, all while publicly and privately painting a picture of internal harmony and teamwork.

They managed to stay unified and on message even during tough times, like the NFL’s tampering investigation into the free-agent signing of Jeremy Maclin that led to fines and the forfeiture of draft picks.

But behind the scenes, the Chiefs’ front office did not always run smoothly under Dorsey. Team chairman Clark Hunt’s decision to fire Dorsey was fueled, in part, by concerns about his internal communication and management styles, according to multiple sources with knowledge of the situation who spoke to The Star on condition of anonymity.

As one of the sources said while describing how Dorsey had removed two front-office executives without much explanation: “John does stuff and doesn’t tell people why.” Another source said Dorsey’s management style “could wear on people.”

A message left with Dorsey seeking comment for this story was not immediately returned.

Dorsey’s firing was announced Thursday, the same day Reid received a contract extension. Both men had a year left on their contracts and report separately, but directly to Hunt. That structure will remain when a new GM is hired.

While sources have consistently maintained that Reid and Dorsey worked well together — “You never got the impression they were sparring,” one source told The Star — the two also had different approaches to their jobs.

While Reid has a reputation for being structured and process-oriented, Dorsey was described by those who know both men as looser.

“He goes with the flow,” one source said of Dorsey.

That style didn’t always mesh in situations outside of Dorsey’s undeniable strengths, picking and evaluating players. The other areas Dorsey oversaw were contracts and salary cap management — and the Chiefs have been in cap trouble for a while — in addition to the general, day-to-day management of the team.

“He’s not a big disciplinarian or big on chain of command,” a source said, “so people did what they wanted.”

“It’s more about his management skills,” another source added.

For instance, the typically stable Chiefs also made waves this offseason when Dorsey released director of football administration Trip MacCracken and director of pro scouting Will Lewis. Each man had been with the team for at least four years, and not only were their dismissals surprising, there weren’t many answers to be found, even inside the organization.

“Those decisions were totally John’s,” a source said. “That’s the kind of stuff he does.”

Sources also critiqued Dorsey’s management style, noting that while he was often friendly and jovial, the same tongue-in-cheek manner he used to win over most people over eventually wore on others.

“It could rub people the wrong way at times,” a source said.

Dorsey still has fans inside the Chiefs organization. They cited his passion for the game, constant availability and eye for talent as respected strengths.

“Loved working for him,” one source said. “Great dude.”

“He was always great to us …,” another source added, “You hate to see something like this happen.”

Dorsey also has a number of supporters across the league, as an overwhelming amount of league sources who dealt with him on a regular basis — approaching a dozen — told The Star.

“He was always a guy that would listen, was a pro, good to work with,” one league source said.

“One of my favorite people in 20 years in the business,” another source said. “Honest and straightforward. Man of conviction. Was shocked and sad to see the news.”

Multiple sources also called Dorsey a friend on a personal level, noting that it was not unusual for him to call just to say “hello,” even when on vacation.

“A consummate pro’s pro in negotiations,” one league source said. “Always up front and straight, and a super talent and football evaluator.”

Other league sources agreed with that notion, adding that Dorsey’s standing as an evaluator of talent remains peerless.

“He is a dyed-in-the-wool scout, loves the element of watching college players, loves breaking down film,” said Andrew Brandt, who spent 10 years as a Green Bay Packers vice president alongside Dorsey and writes for TheMMQB.com. “That always seemed like that’s what he was most happy, and most comfortable, doing.”

It’s a trait that, communication and management issues aside, many league sources believe will be difficult for the Chiefs to replace, especially on the heels of the club losing Dorsey’s talented and respected right-hand man Chris Ballard to Indianapolis five months ago. Ballard is now the Colts’ GM.

“I loved him,” one league source said of Dorsey. “Blunt, honest and a great talent evaluator. Losing him and Ballard in one offseason is insane.”

Brandt said he wouldn’t be surprised if the Chiefs prioritized talent evaluation, along with leadership and communication, with their next hire. The Chiefs are already over the projected 2018 salary cap, but there’s a widely-held belief around the league that whatever cap issues they have can be rectified in a year or two.

“We have this traditional version of an NFL GM coming from a scouting background, like John — and that’s the most popular GM model,” Brandt said. “Then there are a few coming from more of my background, which is from the financial side, about business and cap contracts. The third model is one Andy had in Philly, which is coach/GM.

“To me, the real underappreciated trait you want from a GM is leadership and communication, because the GM will be coming from one of those backgrounds and will need to communicate seamlessly with what he’s not an expert at. Teams sometimes rush to sign an expert in one area while maybe not taking into account the necessity for communication in other areas.”

Flying High D · 06-25-2017, 09:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RunKC

Bottom line: Dorsey's biggest sin was that he wasn't that great with the financial aspect of the job and got us into a jam with the cap.

If there is one thing any owner hates, it's paying for people that aren't on the payroll.

I don't think that should have ended his career here but it makes sense.

So, the owner fires the GM and still have to pay the GM for the next year. Makes perfect sense.

**cdcox** · 06-25-2017, 09:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud

Reerun is a ****ing. So are you.

Clark Hunt hired the best GM candidate in 2009 but it didn't work out.

He hired the best available coach and hired a highly regarded personnel man in Dorsey in 2013. That trajectory isn't over.

Shut the **** up.

I don't blame Hunt for hiring Pioli and give him credit for cutting him loose. Dorsey wasn't bad and he wasn't mediocre. The organization was functioning well and Hunt though so in January (firing season) and May (franchise defining draft deal). No new info has has emerged since then that would upset this evaluation. Hunt has not presented a viable reason for cutting Dorsey loose given his inaction this off season.

**cdcox** · 06-25-2017, 09:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flying High D

So, the owner fires the GM and still have to pay the GM for the next year. Makes perfect sense.

The NFL and many other organizations (NCAA and every corporation) do this all the time. A dead year of salary isn't even the smallest of a considerations.

Reerun_KC · 06-25-2017, 09:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cdcox

This is the central problem with the Hunts, post AFL-AFC merger. They want to look good and make the playoffs. There is no sense of moving beyond being "competitive".

Poeple will passionately defend mediocrity... You are correct sir. The proof is in the laughable playoff recored of the last 4 decades...

Rasputin · 06-25-2017, 09:21 PM

“Loved working for him,” one source said. “Great dude.”

Well there you have it. No real respect you don't just call a GM "dude" Like hey dude what's up dude high five dude Where's my car dude? Bill and Ted Excellent Adventure dude.

Now if it said "Loved working for him," one source said. "Great man" then his dismissal would not be justified but calling him "dude" at that position

**cdcox** · 06-25-2017, 09:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KC Tattoo

“Loved working for him,” one source said. “Great dude.”

Well there you have it. No real respect you don't just call a GM "dude" Like hey dude what's up dude high five dude Where's my car dude? Bill and Ted Excellent Adventure dude.

Now if it said "Loved working for him," one source said. "Great man" then his dismissal would not be justified but calling him "dude" at that position

Those '70s Raiders had hair sticking out the back of their helmet.

Just Win Baby.

Chiefs care more about haircuts than winning. There is the problem.

JakeF · 06-25-2017, 09:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RunKC

Bottom line: Dorsey's biggest sin was that he wasn't that great with the financial aspect of the job and got us into a jam with the cap.

If there is one thing any owner hates, it's paying for people that aren't on the payroll.

I don't think that should have ended his career here but it makes sense.

Next year the only dead money we have is 4.8m for Maclin. None for 2019.

I guess Maclin was pissed off because Hill was taking over the #1 spot and was pouting about it. I didn't like cutting Maclin so soon but maybe he was turning into a problem.

Sweet Daddy Hate · 06-25-2017, 09:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FringeNC

Interesting. Hunt seemed to have no problem with Pioli's tyrannical leadership style. His results, on the other hand...were problematic.

I still can't figure this whole thing out...at the end of the day, Hunt and Reid had to view Dorsey as easily replaceable. Time will tell.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cochise

"Could wear on people" and "communication style" - yes, these are totally sane reasons to fire one of the league's best executives a month before training camp starts...

And believing what CHunt is telling us - that it was a contract dispute. i.e., money, would be the saddest truth of all.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hammock Parties

Damage control by the Clarks.

If Hunt money had not been tossed around so cavalierly no one would give a shit that Dorsey doesn't always say "please" and "thank you" and dares to wear jeans and a sweatshirt instead of Armani around key Arrowhead sponsors.

FU Clark...go back to Texas, focus on raping the earth and buying Tavia new body parts because you suck at running your dad's team.

I can not WAIT until the truth of this shit show is revealed.

Chiefshrink · 06-25-2017, 09:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cochise

Nothing about this, the timing of the decision, Dorsey's performance, letting Ballard get away, extending Reid immediately - nothing about it says that we are getting the truth here.

And why I said in another thread "Clark" showed he could be impulsive as this decision was and the points you make here. Clark doesn't strike me as an impulsive personality but he does come off with the ability to hide his feelings really well and then pull the passive/aggressive stunt against you out of the blue if you don't behave. Was it totally impulsive ? Not in the formal sense but Clark definitely didn't let anybody know his animosity towards Dorsey and then BAM !! I still think Dorsey pulling the media stunt of letting Hunt know through the media with whispers of wanting to go back to GB in order to get his extension done and then being warned not talk to GB is what did him in. I think Hunt caught him and didn't let him know he caught him "again" but waited till after all the draft work and FA stuff was done to fire him IMHO.

BlackOp · 06-25-2017, 09:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud

Clark Hunt hired the best GM candidate in 2009 but it didn't work out.

He hired the best available coach and hired a highly regarded personnel man in Dorsey in 2013. That trajectory isn't over.

He fired them both too...

Rasputin · 06-25-2017, 09:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chiefshrink

And why I said in another thread "Clark" showed he could be impulsive as this decision was and the points you make here. Clark doesn't strike me as an impulsive personality but he does come off with the ability to hide his feelings really well and then pull the passive/aggressive stunt against you out of the blue if you don't behave. Was it totally impulsive ? Not in the formal sense but Clark definitely didn't let anybody know his animosity towards Dorsey and then BAM !! I still think Dorsey pulling the media stunt of letting Hunt know through the media with whispers of wanting to go back to GB in order to get his extension done and then being warned not talk to GB is what did him in. I think Hunt caught him and didn't let him know he caught him "again" but waited till after all the draft work and FA stuff was done to fire him IMHO.

I still don't buy into anything about Dorsey going back to GB if a GM job opens up for him. HE just made deal of the century for the Chiefs with a QBotf and was stoked doing it. This is his blueprint for a Championship and everything he has done is to set this franchise up for long term success. Why wouldn't he want to be apart of that? Why wouldn't he want to reap what he sows in the ground? Why wouldn't he want be there for his young quarterback taking the training wheels off?

Every time I've seen Dorsey interview he speaks of this as his "dream job" in Kansas City

splatbass · 06-25-2017, 09:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rain Man

Until they replace Dorsey with someone who drafts the next Tyreek Hill and Chris Jones, I'm going to petulantly pout.

How is that any different from normal?

**wazu** · 06-25-2017, 09:44 PM

Reports last week were that Dorsey was stunned.

**DaneMcCloud** · 06-25-2017, 09:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wazu

Reports last week were that Dorsey was stunned.

Then he's a bigger dipshit than anyone could have imagined.

If a guy running an NFL franchise can't self-evaluate, he should fear for his job.

**cdcox** · 06-25-2017, 09:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wazu

Reports last week were that Dorsey was stunned.

Obviously Hunt has excellent communication skills.

06-25-2017, 02:52 PM
Quesadilla Joe Abolish The Salary Cap! Join Date: Mar 2008 Casino cash: $3968675	Paylor: Communication, management style were factors in firing of Dorsey A lot of new information/quotes in this article... http://www.kansascity.com/sports/nfl...158155634.html Spoiler! The Chiefs have compiled a 43-21 record the last four years thanks to the work of coach Andy Reid and general manager John Dorsey, all while publicly and privately painting a picture of internal harmony and teamwork. They managed to stay unified and on message even during tough times, like the NFL’s tampering investigation into the free-agent signing of Jeremy Maclin that led to fines and the forfeiture of draft picks. But behind the scenes, the Chiefs’ front office did not always run smoothly under Dorsey. Team chairman Clark Hunt’s decision to fire Dorsey was fueled, in part, by concerns about his internal communication and management styles, according to multiple sources with knowledge of the situation who spoke to The Star on condition of anonymity. As one of the sources said while describing how Dorsey had removed two front-office executives without much explanation: “John does stuff and doesn’t tell people why.” Another source said Dorsey’s management style “could wear on people.” A message left with Dorsey seeking comment for this story was not immediately returned. Dorsey’s firing was announced Thursday, the same day Reid received a contract extension. Both men had a year left on their contracts and report separately, but directly to Hunt. That structure will remain when a new GM is hired. While sources have consistently maintained that Reid and Dorsey worked well together — “You never got the impression they were sparring,” one source told The Star — the two also had different approaches to their jobs. While Reid has a reputation for being structured and process-oriented, Dorsey was described by those who know both men as looser. “He goes with the flow,” one source said of Dorsey. That style didn’t always mesh in situations outside of Dorsey’s undeniable strengths, picking and evaluating players. The other areas Dorsey oversaw were contracts and salary cap management — and the Chiefs have been in cap trouble for a while — in addition to the general, day-to-day management of the team. “He’s not a big disciplinarian or big on chain of command,” a source said, “so people did what they wanted.” “It’s more about his management skills,” another source added. For instance, the typically stable Chiefs also made waves this offseason when Dorsey released director of football administration Trip MacCracken and director of pro scouting Will Lewis. Each man had been with the team for at least four years, and not only were their dismissals surprising, there weren’t many answers to be found, even inside the organization. “Those decisions were totally John’s,” a source said. “That’s the kind of stuff he does.” Sources also critiqued Dorsey’s management style, noting that while he was often friendly and jovial, the same tongue-in-cheek manner he used to win over most people over eventually wore on others. “It could rub people the wrong way at times,” a source said. Dorsey still has fans inside the Chiefs organization. They cited his passion for the game, constant availability and eye for talent as respected strengths. “Loved working for him,” one source said. “Great dude.” “He was always great to us …,” another source added, “You hate to see something like this happen.” Dorsey also has a number of supporters across the league, as an overwhelming amount of league sources who dealt with him on a regular basis — approaching a dozen — told The Star. “He was always a guy that would listen, was a pro, good to work with,” one league source said. “One of my favorite people in 20 years in the business,” another source said. “Honest and straightforward. Man of conviction. Was shocked and sad to see the news.” Multiple sources also called Dorsey a friend on a personal level, noting that it was not unusual for him to call just to say “hello,” even when on vacation. “A consummate pro’s pro in negotiations,” one league source said. “Always up front and straight, and a super talent and football evaluator.” Other league sources agreed with that notion, adding that Dorsey’s standing as an evaluator of talent remains peerless. “He is a dyed-in-the-wool scout, loves the element of watching college players, loves breaking down film,” said Andrew Brandt, who spent 10 years as a Green Bay Packers vice president alongside Dorsey and writes for TheMMQB.com. “That always seemed like that’s what he was most happy, and most comfortable, doing.” It’s a trait that, communication and management issues aside, many league sources believe will be difficult for the Chiefs to replace, especially on the heels of the club losing Dorsey’s talented and respected right-hand man Chris Ballard to Indianapolis five months ago. Ballard is now the Colts’ GM. “I loved him,” one league source said of Dorsey. “Blunt, honest and a great talent evaluator. Losing him and Ballard in one offseason is insane.” Brandt said he wouldn’t be surprised if the Chiefs prioritized talent evaluation, along with leadership and communication, with their next hire. The Chiefs are already over the projected 2018 salary cap, but there’s a widely-held belief around the league that whatever cap issues they have can be rectified in a year or two. “We have this traditional version of an NFL GM coming from a scouting background, like John — and that’s the most popular GM model,” Brandt said. “Then there are a few coming from more of my background, which is from the financial side, about business and cap contracts. The third model is one Andy had in Philly, which is coach/GM. “To me, the real underappreciated trait you want from a GM is leadership and communication, because the GM will be coming from one of those backgrounds and will need to communicate seamlessly with what he’s not an expert at. Teams sometimes rush to sign an expert in one area while maybe not taking into account the necessity for communication in other areas.” Last edited by Quesadilla Joe; 06-25-2017 at 03:11 PM..
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06-25-2017, 09:21 PM	#50
Rasputin Tip of the hat LIV Champs Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: ks Casino cash: $3365421	“Loved working for him,” one source said. “Great dude.” Well there you have it. No real respect you don't just call a GM "dude" Like hey dude what's up dude high five dude Where's my car dude? Bill and Ted Excellent Adventure dude. Now if it said "Loved working for him," one source said. "Great man" then his dismissal would not be justified but calling him "dude" at that position
Posts: 54,973

06-25-2017, 09:44 PM	#58
wazu ... Join Date: May 2002 Location: Kansas City, MO Casino cash: $2072295 VARSITY	Reports last week were that Dorsey was stunned.
Posts: 27,847