Chiefs Paylor: Communication, management style were factors in firing of Dorsey - Page 3

Quesadilla Joe · 03:11 PM

A lot of new information/quotes in this article...

http://www.kansascity.com/sports/nfl...158155634.html

Spoiler!

The Chiefs have compiled a 43-21 record the last four years thanks to the work of coach Andy Reid and general manager John Dorsey, all while publicly and privately painting a picture of internal harmony and teamwork.

They managed to stay unified and on message even during tough times, like the NFL’s tampering investigation into the free-agent signing of Jeremy Maclin that led to fines and the forfeiture of draft picks.

But behind the scenes, the Chiefs’ front office did not always run smoothly under Dorsey. Team chairman Clark Hunt’s decision to fire Dorsey was fueled, in part, by concerns about his internal communication and management styles, according to multiple sources with knowledge of the situation who spoke to The Star on condition of anonymity.

As one of the sources said while describing how Dorsey had removed two front-office executives without much explanation: “John does stuff and doesn’t tell people why.” Another source said Dorsey’s management style “could wear on people.”

A message left with Dorsey seeking comment for this story was not immediately returned.

Dorsey’s firing was announced Thursday, the same day Reid received a contract extension. Both men had a year left on their contracts and report separately, but directly to Hunt. That structure will remain when a new GM is hired.

While sources have consistently maintained that Reid and Dorsey worked well together — “You never got the impression they were sparring,” one source told The Star — the two also had different approaches to their jobs.

While Reid has a reputation for being structured and process-oriented, Dorsey was described by those who know both men as looser.

“He goes with the flow,” one source said of Dorsey.

That style didn’t always mesh in situations outside of Dorsey’s undeniable strengths, picking and evaluating players. The other areas Dorsey oversaw were contracts and salary cap management — and the Chiefs have been in cap trouble for a while — in addition to the general, day-to-day management of the team.

“He’s not a big disciplinarian or big on chain of command,” a source said, “so people did what they wanted.”

“It’s more about his management skills,” another source added.

For instance, the typically stable Chiefs also made waves this offseason when Dorsey released director of football administration Trip MacCracken and director of pro scouting Will Lewis. Each man had been with the team for at least four years, and not only were their dismissals surprising, there weren’t many answers to be found, even inside the organization.

“Those decisions were totally John’s,” a source said. “That’s the kind of stuff he does.”

Sources also critiqued Dorsey’s management style, noting that while he was often friendly and jovial, the same tongue-in-cheek manner he used to win over most people over eventually wore on others.

“It could rub people the wrong way at times,” a source said.

Dorsey still has fans inside the Chiefs organization. They cited his passion for the game, constant availability and eye for talent as respected strengths.

“Loved working for him,” one source said. “Great dude.”

“He was always great to us …,” another source added, “You hate to see something like this happen.”

Dorsey also has a number of supporters across the league, as an overwhelming amount of league sources who dealt with him on a regular basis — approaching a dozen — told The Star.

“He was always a guy that would listen, was a pro, good to work with,” one league source said.

“One of my favorite people in 20 years in the business,” another source said. “Honest and straightforward. Man of conviction. Was shocked and sad to see the news.”

Multiple sources also called Dorsey a friend on a personal level, noting that it was not unusual for him to call just to say “hello,” even when on vacation.

“A consummate pro’s pro in negotiations,” one league source said. “Always up front and straight, and a super talent and football evaluator.”

Other league sources agreed with that notion, adding that Dorsey’s standing as an evaluator of talent remains peerless.

“He is a dyed-in-the-wool scout, loves the element of watching college players, loves breaking down film,” said Andrew Brandt, who spent 10 years as a Green Bay Packers vice president alongside Dorsey and writes for TheMMQB.com. “That always seemed like that’s what he was most happy, and most comfortable, doing.”

It’s a trait that, communication and management issues aside, many league sources believe will be difficult for the Chiefs to replace, especially on the heels of the club losing Dorsey’s talented and respected right-hand man Chris Ballard to Indianapolis five months ago. Ballard is now the Colts’ GM.

“I loved him,” one league source said of Dorsey. “Blunt, honest and a great talent evaluator. Losing him and Ballard in one offseason is insane.”

Brandt said he wouldn’t be surprised if the Chiefs prioritized talent evaluation, along with leadership and communication, with their next hire. The Chiefs are already over the projected 2018 salary cap, but there’s a widely-held belief around the league that whatever cap issues they have can be rectified in a year or two.

“We have this traditional version of an NFL GM coming from a scouting background, like John — and that’s the most popular GM model,” Brandt said. “Then there are a few coming from more of my background, which is from the financial side, about business and cap contracts. The third model is one Andy had in Philly, which is coach/GM.

“To me, the real underappreciated trait you want from a GM is leadership and communication, because the GM will be coming from one of those backgrounds and will need to communicate seamlessly with what he’s not an expert at. Teams sometimes rush to sign an expert in one area while maybe not taking into account the necessity for communication in other areas.”

kgrund · 06-25-2017, 06:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tuckdaddy

That's not how management works. He did one thing well, scout players. Nobody but the owner can just do whatever they want. He Alain fogged up our cap bad.

I agree to that only to the extent if you have an employee who is not very good at anything, than you hag on the other details. Now is you have someone who is exceptional at a key thing that is hard to find, you find other ways to take care of the other details and retain the talent. Now if he really was not as good as many of us think on acquiring talent then that changes things. But if true, management is about assembling and managing talent that puts you in the best position for success. Nobody would question a acquiring talent is among the top 3. If you have a need for the contracts and cap management reassign or go outside the organization. Not that hard IMO.

Hammock Parties · 06-25-2017, 06:18 PM

https://www.reddit.com/r/KansasCityC...iring/djebdfr/

Quote:

This is on nothing more but a personal level and has nothing to do with his abilities as GM, but the dude's a litter bug. A literal litter bug.

Every single year I've went to training camp I've watched this guy throw shit on the practice field. Gum wrappers, wadded up pieces of paper; you name it. First time my buddies and I witnessed it back in 2013 we thought it was hilarious and made many a Scott Pioli joke. But he was still throwing shit on the ground the most recent training camp.

I mean, c'mon! Even if there wasn't trash cans readily available (there are) or if he wasn't wearing shorts with pockets (he was), there's still tons of volunteers/assistants running around all over the place that you could just hand them the damned trash to throw away.

FringeNC · 06-25-2017, 06:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cochise

Nothing about this, the timing of the decision, Dorsey's performance, letting Ballard get away, extending Reid immediately - nothing about it says that we are getting the truth here.

Yeah, but the truth could be that Hunt is taking the heat for Reid, who may have actually been the driving force. Who knows, but the explanations we've been given make no sense.

**Baby Lee** · 06-25-2017, 06:22 PM

I heard he was a close talker who double dipped his chips.

**Baby Lee** · 06-25-2017, 06:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cochise

Nothing about this, the timing of the decision, Dorsey's performance, letting Ballard get away, extending Reid immediately - nothing about it says that we are getting ~~the truth~~ team improvement here.

FYP

**DaFace** · 06-25-2017, 06:51 PM

You can come up with nitpicks about Dorsey. But I have yet to hear anything that is a reasonable justification for firing the most successful GM in the NFL in the past 4 years.

**DaneMcCloud** · 06-25-2017, 06:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaFace

You can come up with nitpicks about Dorsey. But I have yet to hear anything that is a reasonable justification for firing the most successful GM in the NFL in the past 4 years.

I'd imagine that once people start interviewing for the GM position, things will begin to trickle out.

As poor as Peter King is at predictions, he's the most dialed in guy in the NFL, so I'm sure he's getting some kind of scoop.

Unfortunately, he's on break for 3 weeks but hopefully, he'll have some info soon.

RunKC · 06-25-2017, 06:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaFace

You can come up with nitpicks about Dorsey. But I have yet to hear anything that is a reasonable justification for firing the most successful GM in the NFL in the past 4 years.

Bottom line: Dorsey's biggest sin was that he wasn't that great with the financial aspect of the job and got us into a jam with the cap.

If there is one thing any owner hates, it's paying for people that aren't on the payroll.

I don't think that should have ended his career here but it makes sense.

**wazu** · 06-25-2017, 07:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaFace

You can come up with nitpicks about Dorsey. But I have yet to hear anything that is a reasonable justification for firing the most successful GM in the NFL in the past 4 years.

This all day. My confidence in Clark Hunt has been really shaken by this. Dorsey is the best GM I've ever seen the Chiefs have, even with a few warts surrounding the cap and free agents. I want a GM who hits in the draft all the time. That's Dorsey. Gonna be a tough act to follow.

**wazu** · 06-25-2017, 07:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud

I'd imagine that once people start interviewing for the GM position, things will begin to trickle out.

As poor as Peter King is at predictions, he's the most dialed in guy in the NFL, so I'm sure he's getting some kind of scoop.

Unfortunately, he's on break for 3 weeks but hopefully, he'll have some info soon.

At this point all we can do is hope something devastating is revealed.

BlackOp · 06-25-2017, 08:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaFace

You can come up with nitpicks about Dorsey. But I have yet to hear anything that is a reasonable justification for firing the most successful GM in the NFL in the past 4 years.

I think Chunt's hair-helmet was on a little too tight...does Goldman-Sachs issue those for all their robots?

KChiefs1 · 06-25-2017, 09:00 PM

https://youtu.be/LijT7YXTt4Q

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

**cdcox** · 06-25-2017, 09:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reerun_KC

Hunts aren't about winning.

This is the central problem with the Hunts, post AFL-AFC merger. They want to look good and make the playoffs. There is no sense of moving beyond being "competitive".

**DaneMcCloud** · 06-25-2017, 09:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cdcox

This is the central problem with the Hunts, post AFL-AFC merger. They want to look good and make the playoffs. There is no sense of moving beyond being "competitive".

Reerun is a ****ing. So are you.

Clark Hunt hired the best GM candidate in 2009 but it didn't work out.

He hired the best available coach and hired a highly regarded personnel man in Dorsey in 2013. That trajectory isn't over.

Shut the **** up.

**cdcox** · 06-25-2017, 09:05 PM

There is playing nice with others is a desirable trait in a leader. But there is no substitute for talent. Whatever Dorsey lacked in communication skills he made up for in talent evaluation.

06-25-2017, 02:52 PM
Quesadilla Joe Abolish The Salary Cap! Join Date: Mar 2008 Casino cash: $3878675	Paylor: Communication, management style were factors in firing of Dorsey A lot of new information/quotes in this article... http://www.kansascity.com/sports/nfl...158155634.html Spoiler! The Chiefs have compiled a 43-21 record the last four years thanks to the work of coach Andy Reid and general manager John Dorsey, all while publicly and privately painting a picture of internal harmony and teamwork. They managed to stay unified and on message even during tough times, like the NFL’s tampering investigation into the free-agent signing of Jeremy Maclin that led to fines and the forfeiture of draft picks. But behind the scenes, the Chiefs’ front office did not always run smoothly under Dorsey. Team chairman Clark Hunt’s decision to fire Dorsey was fueled, in part, by concerns about his internal communication and management styles, according to multiple sources with knowledge of the situation who spoke to The Star on condition of anonymity. As one of the sources said while describing how Dorsey had removed two front-office executives without much explanation: “John does stuff and doesn’t tell people why.” Another source said Dorsey’s management style “could wear on people.” A message left with Dorsey seeking comment for this story was not immediately returned. Dorsey’s firing was announced Thursday, the same day Reid received a contract extension. Both men had a year left on their contracts and report separately, but directly to Hunt. That structure will remain when a new GM is hired. While sources have consistently maintained that Reid and Dorsey worked well together — “You never got the impression they were sparring,” one source told The Star — the two also had different approaches to their jobs. While Reid has a reputation for being structured and process-oriented, Dorsey was described by those who know both men as looser. “He goes with the flow,” one source said of Dorsey. That style didn’t always mesh in situations outside of Dorsey’s undeniable strengths, picking and evaluating players. The other areas Dorsey oversaw were contracts and salary cap management — and the Chiefs have been in cap trouble for a while — in addition to the general, day-to-day management of the team. “He’s not a big disciplinarian or big on chain of command,” a source said, “so people did what they wanted.” “It’s more about his management skills,” another source added. For instance, the typically stable Chiefs also made waves this offseason when Dorsey released director of football administration Trip MacCracken and director of pro scouting Will Lewis. Each man had been with the team for at least four years, and not only were their dismissals surprising, there weren’t many answers to be found, even inside the organization. “Those decisions were totally John’s,” a source said. “That’s the kind of stuff he does.” Sources also critiqued Dorsey’s management style, noting that while he was often friendly and jovial, the same tongue-in-cheek manner he used to win over most people over eventually wore on others. “It could rub people the wrong way at times,” a source said. Dorsey still has fans inside the Chiefs organization. They cited his passion for the game, constant availability and eye for talent as respected strengths. “Loved working for him,” one source said. “Great dude.” “He was always great to us …,” another source added, “You hate to see something like this happen.” Dorsey also has a number of supporters across the league, as an overwhelming amount of league sources who dealt with him on a regular basis — approaching a dozen — told The Star. “He was always a guy that would listen, was a pro, good to work with,” one league source said. “One of my favorite people in 20 years in the business,” another source said. “Honest and straightforward. Man of conviction. Was shocked and sad to see the news.” Multiple sources also called Dorsey a friend on a personal level, noting that it was not unusual for him to call just to say “hello,” even when on vacation. “A consummate pro’s pro in negotiations,” one league source said. “Always up front and straight, and a super talent and football evaluator.” Other league sources agreed with that notion, adding that Dorsey’s standing as an evaluator of talent remains peerless. “He is a dyed-in-the-wool scout, loves the element of watching college players, loves breaking down film,” said Andrew Brandt, who spent 10 years as a Green Bay Packers vice president alongside Dorsey and writes for TheMMQB.com. “That always seemed like that’s what he was most happy, and most comfortable, doing.” It’s a trait that, communication and management issues aside, many league sources believe will be difficult for the Chiefs to replace, especially on the heels of the club losing Dorsey’s talented and respected right-hand man Chris Ballard to Indianapolis five months ago. Ballard is now the Colts’ GM. “I loved him,” one league source said of Dorsey. “Blunt, honest and a great talent evaluator. Losing him and Ballard in one offseason is insane.” Brandt said he wouldn’t be surprised if the Chiefs prioritized talent evaluation, along with leadership and communication, with their next hire. The Chiefs are already over the projected 2018 salary cap, but there’s a widely-held belief around the league that whatever cap issues they have can be rectified in a year or two. “We have this traditional version of an NFL GM coming from a scouting background, like John — and that’s the most popular GM model,” Brandt said. “Then there are a few coming from more of my background, which is from the financial side, about business and cap contracts. The third model is one Andy had in Philly, which is coach/GM. “To me, the real underappreciated trait you want from a GM is leadership and communication, because the GM will be coming from one of those backgrounds and will need to communicate seamlessly with what he’s not an expert at. Teams sometimes rush to sign an expert in one area while maybe not taking into account the necessity for communication in other areas.” Last edited by Quesadilla Joe; 06-25-2017 at 03:11 PM..
Posts: 19,806

06-25-2017, 06:22 PM	#34
Baby Lee Supporter Join Date: Aug 2000 Casino cash: $6838598	I heard he was a close talker who double dipped his chips. __________________ We need the kind of courage that can withstand the subtle corruption of the cynics - E.W.
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06-25-2017, 06:51 PM	#36
DaFace Kind of a mod Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Donkey Land Casino cash: $1766899	You can come up with nitpicks about Dorsey. But I have yet to hear anything that is a reasonable justification for firing the most successful GM in the NFL in the past 4 years.
Posts: 51,964

06-25-2017, 09:00 PM	#42
KChiefs1 I’m a Mahomo! Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Mid-Missouri Casino cash: $6771021	https://youtu.be/LijT7YXTt4Q Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk __________________
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06-25-2017, 09:05 PM	#45
cdcox www.nfl-forecast.com Join Date: Sep 2000 Casino cash: $2221769	There is playing nice with others is a desirable trait in a leader. But there is no substitute for talent. Whatever Dorsey lacked in communication skills he made up for in talent evaluation.
Posts: 45,543