Jaye Howard or Sean Smith

[kccrow]

Which would you sign.

For the sake of argument, let's assume the following contracts (without getting into the details too much):

Sean Smith gets a 5 year, 52.5 million deal (10.5 per). First year cap hit is 6.6 m to fit cap constraints. Roughly on par with Byron Maxwell's deal (5th highest for a CB).

Jaye Howard gets a 4 year, 36 million deal (9.0 per). First year cap hit is 6.6 m to fit cap constraints. Roughly on par with Derek Wolfe's and Jurrell Casey's deals (6th and 7th highest for 3-4 DE).

[RunKC]

Originally Posted by RealSNR

2014 was pretty good as well.

He's not getting elite money. He's not getting Ndamukong Suh or JJ Watt money, for ****'s sake. He's getting a pretty decent contract to be a starter and get plugged into multiple spots along the defensive line.

Tamba Hali basically had one good year as a 3-4 OLB when Pioli gave him his contract. Same with Derrick Johnson. Same with Allen Bailey.

Howard was on his rookie contract. He needed time. He got time, and the last two years of his contract he played very good football and ended up developing into our most valuable DL.

$7m avg a year. That's more than Allen Bailey and it's 9th at his position. If he wants more than he can GTFO.

This is a good contract for him: 4 years, $28 million, $13m guaranteed an $8m signing bonus.

more gauranteed money than Derek Wolfe including a bigger signing bonus.

[Saccopoo]

Originally Posted by RunKC

$7m avg a year. That's more than Allen Bailey and it's 9th at his position. If he wants more than he can GTFO.

This is a good contract for him: 4 years, $28 million, $13m guaranteed an $8m signing bonus.

more gauranteed money than Derek Wolfe including a bigger signing bonus.

**** that.

[RunKC]

Originally Posted by Saccopoo

**** that.

It won't be a top 10 contract for very long. Any more than that and it's basically Howard or Poe.

And I'm choosing Poe

[Saccopoo]

Originally Posted by RunKC

It won't be a top 10 contract for very long. Any more than that and it's basically Howard or Poe.

And I'm choosing Poe

He can have half of that.

It's why we drafted and played Nunez-Roches and Williams. I'm not really in favor of plugging up that much money into a guy who's played decent one single season when we've got three other dudes who can play that position that will be substantially cheaper to retain. (DeVito and the aforementioned NR & NW.)

Plus he's penalty prone.

I mean, I like the guy, but to give him that much money when Poe is coming up and we've got three other guys to play the same position?

No thanks.

[O.city]

Nunez Roches played like 6 snaps this year. Stop

[Saccopoo]

Originally Posted by O.city

Nunez Roches played like 6 snaps this year. Stop

I don't give a shit. You don't pay Jaye Howard that level of money to play the five tech position. He's not Dontari Poe. He's a space eating guy with some penetration skills.

There are dudes like that in every single freaking draft.

We've got two dudes just like that on roster now in Nunez-Roches and Nick Williams. (Both of whom posted near identical combine/pro day times as Howard.) In fact, Nunez-Roches, if he stayed for his senior season, would have been a much higher draft pick in the 2016 season. They are both the same freaking guy as Howard.

DeVito also played well this season coming off his achilles injury.

You don't pay ****ing Jaye Howard that level of money.

[RunKC]

I can see them liking Nick Williams as a replacement once he bulks up this spring but it says a lot that Dorsey is trying to keep him.

I would be pissed if we have the guy big money bc we have too many big contracts for 3 DL to get big money.

[TigeRRUppeRRcut]

Jaye Howard benefitted from Poe being double teamed up the middle and Houston attracting lots of attention. Let. Howard. Go.

[TigeRRUppeRRcut]

Originally Posted by Saccopoo

I don't give a shit. You don't pay Jaye Howard that level of money to play the five tech position. He's not Dontari Poe. He's a space eating guy with some penetration skills.

There are dudes like that in every single freaking draft.

We've got two dudes just like that on roster now in Nunez-Roches and Nick Williams. (Both of whom posted near identical combine/pro day times as Howard.) In fact, Nunez-Roches, if he stayed for his senior season, would have been a much higher draft pick in the 2016 season. They are both the same freaking guy as Howard.

DeVito also played well this season coming off his achilles injury.

You don't pay ****ing Jaye Howard that level of money.

Precisely

[BossChief]

I wonder what kind of $ Poe is gonna want. That's basically the lynchpin in all of these discussions.

The top 3-4 DTs in the league don't even make 5m per...(the highest per year is Wilfork at 4.5 per).

There are, however, 13 3-4 DEs that make more than 5m per.

Of those guys, Poe is one of the least statistically productive.

Here's the group of DL in a 3-4 that make more than 5m per season along with the amount of sacks and TFLs each is credited with for their career.

Watt
Jordan 38/44
Campbell 28/59
Heyward 21/35
Liuget 20/36
Daniels 18/?
Wolfe 17/?
Casey 26/41
Hatcher 23/32
Bryant 19/26
Jones 10/15
Bailey 11/18
Peaa 13/18

Poe (in 4 seasons) is sitting at 11.5 sacks with only 15TFL

Howard (in 1 season) has 4.5 sacks and 10 TFL.

Howard also has more forced and recovered fumbles than Poe.

[TigeRRUppeRRcut]

You have to consider tho like Brandon Mebane does for the Seahawks...that Poe draws a lot of double teams that stifle his stats but allows those around him to benefit. Same goes for Haloti Ngata.

In my opinion, we should try to develop someone on the line this year and if we need to go all out, we chase after Star Lotuleilei in 2017 as Carolina will be bitten by the salary cap as they have to sign a lot of big players over the next 2 years.

[RealSNR]

Originally Posted by Saccopoo

I don't give a shit. You don't pay Jaye Howard that level of money to play the five tech position. He's not Dontari Poe. He's a space eating guy with some penetration skills.

There are dudes like that in every single freaking draft.

We've got two dudes just like that on roster now in Nunez-Roches and Nick Williams. (Both of whom posted near identical combine/pro day times as Howard.) In fact, Nunez-Roches, if he stayed for his senior season, would have been a much higher draft pick in the 2016 season. They are both the same freaking guy as Howard.

DeVito also played well this season coming off his achilles injury.

You don't pay ****ing Jaye Howard that level of money.

Combine and actual production are two completely different things.

Howard can play. He could play in 2014, and he can definitely play in 2015.

All we got out of Nick Williams and Nunez-Roches in terms of known ability is what we had at the end of 2013 with Jaye Howard.

In other words-- NOTHING.

[Saccopoo]

Originally Posted by RealSNR

Combine and actual production are two completely different things.

Howard can play. He could play in 2014, and he can definitely play in 2015.

All we got out of Nick Williams and Nunez-Roches in terms of known ability is what we had at the end of 2013 with Jaye Howard.

In other words-- NOTHING.

That's fine.

We know what we have in Mike DeVito, Poe and Bailey though. Having Nunez-Roches and Williams as unknowns behind them is far more acceptable than giving Howard a winning Powerball ticket.

[RealSNR]

Originally Posted by Saccopoo

That's fine.

We know what we have in Mike DeVito, Poe and Bailey though. Having Nunez-Roches and Williams as unknowns behind them is far more acceptable than giving Howard a winning Powerball ticket.

Why? Howard was our most dependable and consistently good DL last season. Hell, he may very well be our best DL.

Also, when did Howard play the 5-technique? I don't doubt that he did, but it sure as hell wasn't the position he was usually lined up at.

[chiefscafan]

Truthfully I trust Ballard and Dorsey in their player evaluations. Look what they did this year if we let the two go we probably have something up our sleeve.

The only two I say are definite are Berry and Johnson. The rest I'll just roll with the punches