Football The Broncos: I don't see it. - Page 8

Direckshun · 05-02-2012, 05:10 PM

I really don't.

The Manning thing was a stroke of genius, if only because John Elway has the benefit of being Manning's idol. I tell you what, if I was a future Hall of Fame basketball player, and none of you know me so let's just say I am, I'd probably be more inclined to play for the Pacers under Larry Bird (favorite player of all time) than on a small market playoff team like the Memphis Grizzlies.

I think the Broncos, with that acquisition, are about to have themselves a Top 5 passing game in the NFL.

The problem is, I'm pretty sure that's all this team is.

The offensive line is not close to being fixed. Orlando Franklin has been serviceable on the right side, but is not an Eric Winston world beater at the position. And unless they move Franklin inside, their interior line is a joke. Beadles looks like he's getting another year sucking it up at RG, and it looks like JD Walton will be sucking it up at C yet again, because I honestly don't think Phillip Blake unseats him. And if he does, we'll take 680 lbs of nose tackle and shove it up right up the rook's nose.

Which would mean a ton if they had a demonic run game to threaten defenses with -- which, ding ding ding, you guessed it: it's average. Willis McGahee was running like a wildman when Tebow was under center, but they couldn't move the ball against the Chiefs bottom-third run defense late in the year. The only reinforcements they've brought in? A scatback from San Diego State, Ronnie Hillman.

I've no doubt that teams will drop eight, giving the Donks a chance to run better, but it's nothing a stout defensive line and a fast linebacker corps can't rectify.

Their defensive line continues to underwhelm me up the middle -- I like what they have coming off the edges, but I think you can run right at Dumervil and Ayers (I regard Miller as the real deal). I've never been a big DJ Williams fan, just plays too much like Derrick Johnson from the Vermeil days for me to get too excited about.

Their secondary has some talent. Bailey is an All Pro in his twilight years, and I love that safety they drafted from UCLA last year. But Porter has spent the past year or two getting his ass handed to him in New Orleans, and their rookie corner is coming off a devastating injury and is going to take a year or two to develop anyway.

The more things change, the more they stay the same... the Broncos are looking a lot now like the Colts did in the latter Manning years: all pass game with an average run game, with a shit defense apart from two passrushers.

It was a successful strategy in Indianapolis, when the run game was better. The offensive line was better. The defense was better.

And the quarterback was younger, stronger, not a year out of football, one hit away from being sidelined.

In which case, we'll either see a lanky-ass rookie with a Tebow-style delivery, or Caleb Hanie, who we beat in 2011 with Tyler Palko under center.

Sorry folks, don't see it.

San Diego or Kansas City make a ton more sense as division winners.

Pablo · 05-02-2012, 09:27 PM

Color me unimpressed with WM's career.

One season in the wildcat isn't enough to make me pine for the guy.

veist · 05-02-2012, 09:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Satanic Goat

PFF gave the Donks run blocking a shitty grade last year.

It's entirely possible, without the option threat, their running game goes to shit.

I think its pretty clear that their OL was a hot pile of suck from top to bottom last year and without the option they'd have been toast. Even with the option when they ran up against a D that played disciplined and stuck with their assignments they were toast because Tebow couldn't beat anyone with his arm.

**BossChief** · 05-02-2012, 09:29 PM

You know what? **** that, I'd probably take Hillis due to age and lacking wear on the tires.

Ebolapox · 05-02-2012, 09:31 PM

mcgahee was written off when the ravens got rid of him. his numbers before tebow became the QB and they switched to the gimmick offense were as follows (stats from nfl.com)

69 carries, 249 yards, one touchdown (we're ignoring receiving stats, but they aren't that great)

that's an average of 3.6 yards per carry. at that point, the ravens were justified (and yeah, he DID have exactly two games of over 100 yards, at 101 and 103)

AFTER tebow came in and they went option, his numbers were as follows:

180 carries, 950 yards, three touchdowns... that's an average of ~5.28 yards per carry. five more 100 yard rushing games.

you're kidding yourself if you say that their gimmick offense didn't completely give mcgahee a boost (and likely mask a guy who isn't what he used to be, and WOULD be in a non-gimmick offense)

**OnTheWarpath15** · 05-02-2012, 09:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BossChief

You know what? **** that, I'd probably take Hillis due to age and lacking wear on the tires.

Age is the only thing PH has in his favor, IMO.

I think WM absolutely has the advantage when it comes to the locker room/leadership.

Hillis has had one good season. McGhee has had several. As pointed out, if you give him the bulk of the work, he performs well.

Ebolapox · 05-02-2012, 09:32 PM

he's in thomas ****ing jones territory in an actual nfl offense.

Pablo · 05-02-2012, 09:34 PM

Neither Hillis or McGahee excite me.

Put a real RB like Charles in some gimmick offense and he might break the rushing record.

-King- · 05-02-2012, 09:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by H5N5

mcgahee was written off when the ravens got rid of him. his numbers before tebow became the QB and they switched to the gimmick offense were as follows (stats from nfl.com)

69 carries, 249 yards, one touchdown (we're ignoring receiving stats, but they aren't that great)

that's an average of 3.6 yards per carry. at that point, the ravens were justified (and yeah, he DID have exactly two games of over 100 yards, at 101 and 103)

AFTER tebow came in and they went option, his numbers were as follows:

180 carries, 950 yards, three touchdowns... that's an average of ~5.28 yards per carry. five more 100 yard rushing games.

you're kidding yourself if you say that their gimmick offense didn't completely give mcgahee a boost (and likely mask a guy who isn't what he used to be, and WOULD be in a non-gimmick offense)

**OnTheWarpath15** · 05-02-2012, 09:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by H5N5

mcgahee was written off when the ravens got rid of him. his numbers before tebow became the QB and they switched to the gimmick offense were as follows (stats from nfl.com)

69 carries, 249 yards, one touchdown (we're ignoring receiving stats, but they aren't that great)

that's an average of 3.6 yards per carry. at that point, the ravens were justified (and yeah, he DID have exactly two games of over 100 yards, at 101 and 103)

AFTER tebow came in and they went option, his numbers were as follows:

180 carries, 950 yards, three touchdowns... that's an average of ~5.28 yards per carry. five more 100 yard rushing games.

you're kidding yourself if you say that their gimmick offense didn't completely give mcgahee a boost (and likely mask a guy who isn't what he used to be, and WOULD be in a non-gimmick offense)

And now defenses have an elite QB to defend.

Is that going to be considered a gimmick too?

If he stays healthy, I see no reason why he ancient put up 1200 again.

Boss? Your thoughts?

**BossChief** · 05-02-2012, 09:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OnTheWarpath58

Age is the only thing PH has in his favor, IMO.

I think WM absolutely has the advantage when it comes to the locker room/leadership.

Hillis has had one good season. McGhee has had several. As pointed out, if you give him the bulk of the work, he performs well.

I bet Hillis has more combined yards than McGahee next year.

It's really amazing the guy even plays football at this level for so many years after that injury in that bowl game.

Hammock Parties · 05-02-2012, 09:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OnTheWarpath58

And now defenses have an elite QB to defend.

Is that going to be considered a gimmick too?

If he stays healthy, I see no reason why he ancient put up 1200 again.

Boss? Your thoughts?

OL still has to block.

Ebolapox · 05-02-2012, 09:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OnTheWarpath58

And now defenses have an elite QB to defend.

Is that going to be considered a gimmick too?

If he stays healthy, I see no reason why he ancient put up 1200 again.

Boss? Your thoughts?

didn't seem to help joseph addai too much, did it? didn't help donald brown either.

kcbubb · 05-02-2012, 09:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BDB

I love how you spent all that time on a team you "don't see it" on. The funny thing is these type of posts are littered across Charger and Raiders boards as well. KC, OAK, and SD fans really only have a few more months of any hope for the next few years, so I guess its a natural reaction among fans.

Broncos finished 8-8, and won a playoff game, with a pass-less QB last year. They beat the chiefs with 2 completions and 8 attempts for crying out loud. The offensive line is top 5 in the league, period. Yeah they gave up a lot of sacks, but Tebow held the ball waiting for his 1st read to get open most of the time. Also, in the midst of a season changing styles of play from a traditional offense under Orton to a college offense for Tebow, the offensive line handled like pros and they will be better next year. I put thier WR corps up against anybody's. Decker lead the league in yards last season before Tebow showed up, and you haven't even begun to see what Thomas can do. Look it up, towards the end of the season as he got healthy he was unstoppable during the few time's Tebow actually pulled the trigger. (see Vikings game). Codwell was a nice addition too. Oh, Manning had a better running game in Indy, really? Do you even watch football?

The defense has far more talented than you give the credit for as well. There are players slotted this year that you have no idea who they are, but after this season you will know them very well. Keep in mind, the defense has had 6different cordinators in 6 years. Although they, yet again, have a another new DC this season, John Fox is the staple and the defense finally has stability there for the first time in a very long time (Del Rio, who was Fox's DC during his SB run in Carolina, isn't a bad pick up either) Denver offensively broke a records last year for the most in a season, and most consecutive, 3-and-outs. If you had paid any attention last season beyond the final two-mins of "tebow time", you would know that the defense carried them 90-95 percent of time. Thier defense is good.

I think the reason why fans of other AFC-W teams spend thier time talking about Denver is because deep down you all really know that the presence of Manning makes all the units better, ie., the presence of a passing game, and a 30-point per game offense, will make the defense that much better. If you're a fantasy owner - Eric Decker, career year! And let me save the suspense for you. Yes, Manning is 100% Manning. John Lynch had the same neck injury and same doctor who treated and cleared both Lynch and Manning. Lynch played 4 great seasons with Denver - including an AFC championship game. With Manning's ability to get rid of the ball and the NFL's protection of QBs, there is no reason to believe Manning wont be starting for Denver for at least 4 years. So you stop kidding yourselves about him not playing. He's a Broncos, and it will be Manning being Manning for a forseeable while. You may not "see it" all you want here in May; however, come September I have a sneaking suspicion it will be pretty pretty pretty clear for ya.

Oh and btw, DJ Williams will not be with the team next season, and your assessment of the Rahim Moore is pretty funny as well - he will be lucky to make the team.

I am afraid that this guy is right. Sad that we may not go to the playoffs for a while. We could be like the the texans when manning was with the colts.

**OnTheWarpath15** · 05-02-2012, 09:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by H5N5

didn't seem to help joseph addai too much, did it? didn't help donald brown either.

Mcgahee's a better back than both, and Indy never ran the ball. They didn't need to.

Denver doesn't have Wayne, Garçon and Clark. They're going to have to be able to run the ball.

**BossChief** · 05-02-2012, 09:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OnTheWarpath58

And now defenses have an elite QB to defend.

Is that going to be considered a gimmick too?

If he stays healthy, I see no reason why he ancient put up 1200 again.

Boss? Your thoughts?

I see him in the 800-1000 yard mark if he stays healthy and Peyton is able to stretch the defense....which I don't think will happen next year.

He might have a career receiving year, though.

05-02-2012, 05:10 PM
Direckshun __ Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Springpatch Casino cash: $4093447	The Broncos: I don't see it. I really don't. The Manning thing was a stroke of genius, if only because John Elway has the benefit of being Manning's idol. I tell you what, if I was a future Hall of Fame basketball player, and none of you know me so let's just say I am, I'd probably be more inclined to play for the Pacers under Larry Bird (favorite player of all time) than on a small market playoff team like the Memphis Grizzlies. I think the Broncos, with that acquisition, are about to have themselves a Top 5 passing game in the NFL. The problem is, I'm pretty sure that's all this team is. The offensive line is not close to being fixed. Orlando Franklin has been serviceable on the right side, but is not an Eric Winston world beater at the position. And unless they move Franklin inside, their interior line is a joke. Beadles looks like he's getting another year sucking it up at RG, and it looks like JD Walton will be sucking it up at C yet again, because I honestly don't think Phillip Blake unseats him. And if he does, we'll take 680 lbs of nose tackle and shove it up right up the rook's nose. Which would mean a ton if they had a demonic run game to threaten defenses with -- which, ding ding ding, you guessed it: it's average. Willis McGahee was running like a wildman when Tebow was under center, but they couldn't move the ball against the Chiefs bottom-third run defense late in the year. The only reinforcements they've brought in? A scatback from San Diego State, Ronnie Hillman. I've no doubt that teams will drop eight, giving the Donks a chance to run better, but it's nothing a stout defensive line and a fast linebacker corps can't rectify. Their defensive line continues to underwhelm me up the middle -- I like what they have coming off the edges, but I think you can run right at Dumervil and Ayers (I regard Miller as the real deal). I've never been a big DJ Williams fan, just plays too much like Derrick Johnson from the Vermeil days for me to get too excited about. Their secondary has some talent. Bailey is an All Pro in his twilight years, and I love that safety they drafted from UCLA last year. But Porter has spent the past year or two getting his ass handed to him in New Orleans, and their rookie corner is coming off a devastating injury and is going to take a year or two to develop anyway. The more things change, the more they stay the same... the Broncos are looking a lot now like the Colts did in the latter Manning years: all pass game with an average run game, with a shit defense apart from two passrushers. It was a successful strategy in Indianapolis, when the run game was better. The offensive line was better. The defense was better. And the quarterback was younger, stronger, not a year out of football, one hit away from being sidelined. In which case, we'll either see a lanky-ass rookie with a Tebow-style delivery, or Caleb Hanie, who we beat in 2011 with Tyler Palko under center. Sorry folks, don't see it. San Diego or Kansas City make a ton more sense as division winners.
Posts: 59,327

05-02-2012, 09:27 PM	#106
Pablo Ultrabanned Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: North da River Casino cash: $1469356	Color me unimpressed with WM's career. One season in the wildcat isn't enough to make me pine for the guy.
Posts: 40,869

05-02-2012, 09:29 PM	#108
BossChief SuperBowl or bust Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: BF Iowa Casino cash: $1374088	You know what? **** that, I'd probably take Hillis due to age and lacking wear on the tires. __________________ Dreams do come true... http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showp...postcount=1407
Posts: 47,195

05-02-2012, 09:31 PM	#109
Ebolapox remember, remember Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: como Casino cash: $1539903	mcgahee was written off when the ravens got rid of him. his numbers before tebow became the QB and they switched to the gimmick offense were as follows (stats from nfl.com) 69 carries, 249 yards, one touchdown (we're ignoring receiving stats, but they aren't that great) that's an average of 3.6 yards per carry. at that point, the ravens were justified (and yeah, he DID have exactly two games of over 100 yards, at 101 and 103) AFTER tebow came in and they went option, his numbers were as follows: 180 carries, 950 yards, three touchdowns... that's an average of ~5.28 yards per carry. five more 100 yard rushing games. you're kidding yourself if you say that their gimmick offense didn't completely give mcgahee a boost (and likely mask a guy who isn't what he used to be, and WOULD be in a non-gimmick offense)
Posts: 26,440

05-02-2012, 09:32 PM	#111
Ebolapox remember, remember Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: como Casino cash: $1539903	he's in thomas ****ing jones territory in an actual nfl offense.
Posts: 26,440

05-02-2012, 09:34 PM	#112
Pablo Ultrabanned Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: North da River Casino cash: $1469356	Neither Hillis or McGahee excite me. Put a real RB like Charles in some gimmick offense and he might break the rushing record.
Posts: 40,869