Poe.

[LOCOChief]

Originally Posted by KC Tattoo

What's your expectations for Dorsey & T Jack?

This is the year they both better damn well do there jobs. I think they do fine in run defense but we suffer at getting to the QB with them. I'm hoping with Poe he helps collapse the pocket on the inside & T Jack & Dorsey have better routes to the QB, somebody is going be double teamed & taking up blocks for Hali to get there quicker.

They do their jobs already. Their jobs are to stuff the run and occupy blockers so that Hali, Houston, DJ, Berry etc.... can get to the QB

People will think differently about Dorsey and TJ if Poe pans out in the middle, and I think he'll rape right out of the gate.

[ToxSocks]

Originally Posted by LOCOChief

They do their jobs already. Their jobs are to stuff the run and occupy blockers so that Hali, Houston, DJ, Berry etc.... can get to the QB

People will think differently about Dorsey and TJ if Poe pans out in the middle, and I think he'll rape right out of the gate.

This is a misconception. Their PRIMARY job is to tie up blockers, not their only job, which they do a good job at. But they also need to get after the QB, which they fail miserably at.

[LOCOChief]

Originally Posted by Detoxing

This is a misconception. Their PRIMARY job is to tie up blockers, not their only job, which they do a good job at. But they also need to get after the QB, which they fail miserably at.

We'll just agree to disagree on this, either way I think they'll be seen in a different light if Poe pans out.

[ToxSocks]

Originally Posted by LOCOChief

We'll just agree to disagree on this, either way I think they'll be seen in a different light if Poe pans out.

I don't see what Poe is going to do for them. They're not getting push in 1vs1 situations. Poe isn't going to change that.

The guys who will benefit from Poe are the LBers.

[Buckweath]

People need to stop with being disappointed by Dorsey and Jackson poor sack numbers, or poor pass rush if you prefer.

Do you realize this Chiefs defense with Dorsey and Jackson starting all 16 games finished 6th in the league in pass defense despite having no Eric Berry back there and a passrusher like Justin Houston who wasn't a factor early on.
Did you see those games against Rodgers, Big Ben, Brady (without Eric Berry I remember you)?

Let's hope Dontari Poe can collapse the pocket regularly, if not this year next year, but I definitly think Dorsey and Jackson are a good part of the reason why this defense might already be elite.

I really hope the Chiefs resign Dorsey, he is an underrated player, not a star but real solid.

[ToxSocks]

Originally Posted by Buckweath

People need to stop with being disappointed by Dorsey and Jackson poor sack numbers, or poor pass rush if you prefer.

Do you realize this Chiefs defense with Dorsey and Jackson starting all 16 games finished 6th in the league in pass defense despite having no Eric Berry back there and a passrusher like Justin Houston who wasn't a factor early on.
Did you see those games against Rodgers, Big Ben, Brady (without Eric Berry I remember you)?

Let's hope Dontari Poe can collapse the pocket regularly, if not this year next year, but I definitly think Dorsey and Jackson are a good part of the reason why this defense might already be elite.

I really hope the Chiefs resign Dorsey, he is an underrated player, not a star but real solid.

Considering Dorsey and Jackson come out on obvious passing downs, and that the Chiefs were near the bottom in total sacks, ima say that Jackson and Dorsey DIDN'T have a large part in that.

Tying up blockers and stopping the run is not their only job. If this Defense is going to take the next step forward to ELITE status, they have to get more production out of their DE's.

[Buckweath]

Originally Posted by Detoxing

Considering Dorsey and Jackson come out on obvious passing downs, and that the Chiefs were near the bottom in total sacks, ima say that Jackson and Dorsey DIDN'T have a large part in that.

Tying up blockers and stopping the run is not their only job. If this Defense is going to take the next step forward to ELITE status, they have to get more production out of their DE's.

Whatever if we have a rotation at DEs... Do you deny that the Chiefs pass defence was elite in the second half of last season?

It's clear to me that Dorsey and Jackson's primary job is to stop the run, which they have proved to be great at. I wish they woud give us a bit more passrush but I don't expect it to happen and with the rise of Justin Houston, Allen Bailey and hopefully a decent rookie season by Poe, why are you so concerned by Dorsey and Jackson pass rush?

Between Hali, Houston, Bailey, maybe Poe and Berry and Arenas as great DB passrushers, the passrush will be fine my friend, do not worry.

[ToxSocks]

Originally Posted by Buckweath

Whatever if we have a rotation at DEs... Do you deny that the Chiefs pass defence was elite in the second half of last season?

It's clear to me that Dorsey and Jackson's primary job is to stop the run, which they have proved to be great at. I wish they woud give us a bit more passrush but I don't expect it to happen and with the rise of Justin Houston, Allen Bailey and hopefully a decent rookie season by Poe, why are you so concerned by Dorsey and Jackson pass rush?

Between Hali, Houston, Bailey, maybe Poe and Berry and Arenas as great DB passrushers, the passrush will be fine my friend, do not worry.

There is a lot of cause to be concerned about the pass rush. They were tied for 3rd worst in the league last season.

Dorsey and Jackson combined for a whopping ONE sack the ENTIRE season. That is pathetic.

So lets go with what you've dreamed up though.

Hali continues to be Hali and gets 12-14 Sacks.

Houston Continue where he left off and get 8-10 Sacks.

Dorsey and Jackson continue Being Dorsey and Jackson: 1 Sack

The DB's rushing the QB thing is a bit of a reach, but we'll go with it.

Arenas: 2 Sacks

Berry: 2 Sacks

Now lets say we get about 10 sacks from everywhere else (which is what we got last year) : That would put us at 34 Sacks on the season.

We will have improved from 29th int the league to about 20th.

Not good enough.

BUT

If Dorsey and Jackson do what a good 34 DE would do...Produce 4-5 Sacks each on the season, then we'd be top 10.

Or....close to Elite.

Point?

Dorsey and Jackson producing a combined 1 sack per season isn't going to cut it.

[Rasputin]

Thank you Detoxing, that's the kind of point I was trying to make out of my questions. I havn't fealt like they've played good enough especially on passing downs. This year they best be getting at the QB. Poes job is collaps the inside, but he is too young & wet behind the ears to get his technique down to be that effective for his first year so we got to count on Dorsey & T Jack to really get after the QB. We should be constructive critisism for there play on the field imo & not just say that's good enough, it's not.

[ToxSocks]

Originally Posted by KC Tattoo

Thank you Detoxing, that's the kind of point I was trying to make out of my questions. I havn't fealt like they've played good enough especially on passing downs. This year they best be getting at the QB. Poes job is collaps the inside, but he is too young & wet behind the ears to get his technique down to be that effective for his first year so we got to count on Dorsey & T Jack to really get after the QB. We should be constructive critisism for there play on the field imo & not just say that's good enough, it's not.

Exactly. It's not good enough. I'm not saying they are bad players, but they have to step it up in passing situations. Their lack of production is too much for the rest of the team to overcome, and Poe isn't going to do them any favors, at least not in his first year or two. There isn't a NT on the planet that will help Dorsey and Jackson win 1vs1. They have to do it themselves, and to this point, neither have shown that they can.

We're not asking for the world here. Something like 4-5 sacks each. We need them to produce that if this D is going to take the next step forward.

The problem with CP's members is that "They just have to clog the lanes" has been beaten into so many people's heads.

It's PART of their job, not their only job.

Even if Houston picks up where he left off and Hali continues to be Hali, it won't be enough to make this defense Elite. Not until those two step it up.

[themanwithnoname]

Originally Posted by Detoxing

There is a lot of cause to be concerned about the pass rush. They were tied for 3rd worst in the league last season.

Dorsey and Jackson combined for a whopping ONE sack the ENTIRE season. That is pathetic.

So lets go with what you've dreamed up though.

Hali continues to be Hali and gets 12-14 Sacks.

Houston Continue where he left off and get 8-10 Sacks.

Dorsey and Jackson continue Being Dorsey and Jackson: 1 Sack

The DB's rushing the QB thing is a bit of a reach, but we'll go with it.

Arenas: 2 Sacks

Berry: 2 Sacks

Now lets say we get about 10 sacks from everywhere else (which is what we got last year) : That would put us at 34 Sacks on the season.

We will have improved from 29th int the league to about 20th.

Not good enough.

BUT

If Dorsey and Jackson do what a good 34 DE would do...Produce 4-5 Sacks each on the season, then we'd be top 10.

Or....close to Elite.

Point?

Dorsey and Jackson producing a combined 1 sack per season isn't going to cut it.

But, if Dorsey and Jackson aren't in on passing downs so how are they going to get sacks then? Point, without knowing exactly what they are being asked to actually do, how can you say they need to improve?

Jackson and Dorsey are there to enable others to make plays. Odd that after their improved play, we're talking about how DJ, Hali, and now Houston are making plays. The problem is that its still not enough because the Chiefs are not a big blitzing defense, and rely on just a couple of guys to essentially be their pass rush (hell you could almost argue one guy and amazingly its actually worked decently). I personally would like to see them get more aggressive, and I think that is actually the next step that needs to be taken. We'll see how things turn out obviously, but I think Jackson and Dorsey were told deliberately not to be super aggressive and get after the QB.

[Rasputin]

Originally Posted by themanwithnoname

But, if Dorsey and Jackson aren't in on passing downs so how are they going to get sacks then? Point, without knowing exactly what they are being asked to actually do, how can you say they need to improve?

Jackson and Dorsey are there to enable others to make plays. Odd that after their improved play, we're talking about how DJ, Hali, and now Houston are making plays. The problem is that its still not enough because the Chiefs are not a big blitzing defense, and rely on just a couple of guys to essentially be their pass rush (hell you could almost argue one guy and amazingly its actually worked decently). I personally would like to see them get more aggressive, and I think that is actually the next step that needs to be taken. We'll see how things turn out obviously, but I think Jackson and Dorsey were told deliberately not to be super aggressive and get after the QB.

I don't think it be too much to ask for each of them to get 10 sacks or average a sack a game would be nice. The thing is one sack for the season just doesn't cut it for either of them and I don't care it's not recipe for winning when your DEs get one sack per year. Even in a 34, at the least give me 12 sacks combined between them. One sack is BS. On a good season they both can get 10+sacks.

[whoman69]

Originally Posted by themanwithnoname

But, if Dorsey and Jackson aren't in on passing downs so how are they going to get sacks then? Point, without knowing exactly what they are being asked to actually do, how can you say they need to improve?

Jackson and Dorsey are there to enable others to make plays. Odd that after their improved play, we're talking about how DJ, Hali, and now Houston are making plays. The problem is that its still not enough because the Chiefs are not a big blitzing defense, and rely on just a couple of guys to essentially be their pass rush (hell you could almost argue one guy and amazingly its actually worked decently). I personally would like to see them get more aggressive, and I think that is actually the next step that needs to be taken. We'll see how things turn out obviously, but I think Jackson and Dorsey were told deliberately not to be super aggressive and get after the QB.

Sorry but they were on the field for 200 passing downs last year. Teams are throwing out of their base set against our base defense on 1st and 2nd downs. That means for all those plays Dorsey and Jackson are next to useless.

[Rasputin]

Originally Posted by LOCOChief

They do their jobs already. Their jobs are to stuff the run and occupy blockers so that Hali, Houston, DJ, Berry etc.... can get to the QB

People will think differently about Dorsey and TJ if Poe pans out in the middle, and I think he'll rape right out of the gate.

No on passing downs they need to be getting to the QB asap. That's there job. Getting penatration & getting double teamed is part of it. There lacking of sacks and getting to the QB is not acceptable, especially at the draft spot they were taken.

[LOCOChief]

Originally Posted by KC Tattoo

No on passing downs they need to be getting to the QB asap. That's there job. Getting penatration & getting double teamed is part of it. There lacking of sacks and getting to the QB is not acceptable, especially at the draft spot they were taken.

IF the nt isn't drawing double teams the ends are. Go Chiefs DJ gif evidences what I'm saying pretty clearly.

I'm not saying there doesn't need to be improvement from both Dorsey and TJ regarding pass rush but we've seen improvement there with good nt play and both players are assending imo.