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Old 09-23-2018, 08:30 AM  
Hog's Gone Fishin Hog's Gone Fishin is offline
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Earl Thomas a longshot to be a Chief
They just said on ESPN we were on the list of teams that he could be dealt to.
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Old 09-24-2018, 07:54 AM   #601
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Bob Sutton's defenses were excellent when the talent was there. This defense sorely needs talent and using Bob Sutton as an excuse to not acquire it is inexcusable...
I'm just going to have to disagree with you man, and that's fine... a difference of opinion makes things interesting.

I see Bob Sutton as the leader of the defense. Just like a QB makes average players around him better, the DC should be putting players in position to succeed.
Now, I agree the tackling is a shit show this season, but IMO that still falls on the DC. He needs to figure out a way to toughen up his squad. If that takes benching players, fine (it can't get much worse). If that takes a Todd Haley approach at being a dick-head to get production... so be it. This defense sucks and just like in the real world, it eventually is a telling tale on management.

To me, looking at the stat sheet on Bob Sutton's defense over the past few years is the same as looking at Alex Smith's stat sheet and thinking he is [good enough]. The stats are skewed, and the eye-test tells a more telling story. That's not saying the Chiefs defense Hasn't shown up in some games over the past 5 years, because they have.

Say the Chiefs defense game plans VERY well against an offense and they haven't been able to do much all game, and then in Q4... Bob Sutton switches to a prevent which opens up everything for the offense to march down field and score TD's. This allows the offense to get right back into the game and gain a ton of momentum. WHY NOT just use the same plan that had been working most of the game? As much as I blame Sutton for not adjusting, he sometimes seems to adjust in the WRONG direction when something has been working.

Side Note:
The Chiefs defense benefited from an insane amount of Luck (the ball bouncing their way) and Marcus Peters going off with a ton of INT's and Strips. Some of us around here have said that hoping for THAT many turnovers is not sustainable and we were right, because the Defense isn't getting them anymore.

Bob Sutton had THE SAME talent/personnel in both playoff collapses... why does his plan fail in the late 3rd and 4th Quarters no matter what his talent is on the field? I don't really think you can replace Sutton with another DC during mid-season, but until I see different I still think the DC position needs to be heavily looked at this off-season.

Hell, maybe Sutton turns his defense around in week 4+... I would love to eat crow, but Sutton has been tiresome to me the past few seasons and that was WITH all of the turnovers. I may even regret this post, and I may not know as much as everyone else, but this is just how I feel right now.
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Old 09-24-2018, 07:57 AM   #602
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The Chiefs have some dudes with really bad football IQ's, Eric Murray doesn't understand how to drop into a zone properly...how the **** can you help a guy who's probably played since he was 5 figure that out?
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Old 09-24-2018, 08:01 AM   #603
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Another thing about Earl is he plays a position that many greats like himself have been able to be awesome at into their 30s. So I’m not sure the age makes it all that bad of an investment still. He looked 25 on the field yesterday...
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Old 09-24-2018, 08:06 AM   #604
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Another thing about Earl is he plays a position that many greats like himself have been able to be awesome at into their 30s. So I’m not sure the age makes it all that bad of an investment still. He looked 25 on the field yesterday...
Yes!
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Old 09-24-2018, 08:07 AM   #605
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I'm just going to have to disagree with you man, and that's fine... a difference of opinion makes things interesting.

I see Bob Sutton as the leader of the defense. Just like a QB makes average players around him better, the DC should be putting players in position to succeed.
So whose fault is it if Sutton says "you need to be here" and the player goes somewhere else? Eric Murray is out of position on nearly every play. That's on Eric Murray, not Bob Sutton.

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Now, I agree the tackling is a shit show this season, but IMO that still falls on the DC. He needs to figure out a way to toughen up his squad. If that takes benching players, fine (it can't get much worse). If that takes a Todd Haley approach at being a dick-head to get production... so be it. This defense sucks and just like in the real world, it eventually is a telling tale on management.
They only have so many guys on game day. We have to assume that the guys on the bench are actually worse than the ones on the field, or they wouldn't be on the bench. You're REALLY overestimating the impact of coaching on NFL players. Coaches scheme and call plays. When guys can't do the fundamentals, like tackling, that's a personnel issue. NFL defensive coordinators don't teach tackling. Heck, they CAN'T teach tackling. If they have to spend appreciable time teaching tackling, the team is screwed before they even start.

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Originally Posted by Molitoth View Post
To me, looking at the stat sheet on Bob Sutton's defense over the past few years is the same as looking at Alex Smith's stat sheet and thinking he is [good enough]. The stats are skewed, and the eye-test tells a more telling story. That's not saying the Chiefs defense Hasn't shown up in some games over the past 5 years, because they have.

Say the Chiefs defense game plans VERY well against an offense and they haven't been able to do much all game, and then in Q4... Bob Sutton switches to a prevent which opens up everything for the offense to march down field and score TD's. This allows the offense to get right back into the game and gain a ton of momentum. WHY NOT just use the same plan that had been working most of the game? As much as I blame Sutton for not adjusting, he sometimes seems to adjust in the WRONG direction when something has been working.

Bob Sutton had THE SAME talent/personnel in both playoff collapses... why does his plan fail in the late 3rd and 4th Quarters no matter what his talent is on the field? I don't really think you can replace Sutton with another DC during mid-season, but until I see different I still think the DC position needs to be heavily looked at this off-season.
You know why you observe this? Because this is coming from the head coach, not from Bob Sutton. The same tendencies we see from the defense when we have a big lead or late in the game were present in the offense over the last 5 years. What's different this year? Patrick Mahomes replaced Alex Smith. We need a Mahomes on the defense, we don't even have Alex Smith.
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Old 09-24-2018, 08:10 AM   #606
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Even if this team had pro bowl dudes on the field, they'd be backing off up 35-7.

Teams score and come back against it because we have no playmakers to make anything happen.
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Old 09-24-2018, 08:14 AM   #607
htismaqe htismaqe is offline
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Even if this team had pro bowl dudes on the field, they'd be backing off up 35-7.

Teams score and come back against it because we have no playmakers to make anything happen.
Yep.

Watch other games, teams play soft zones in that situation all the time. The difference is that they create long drives and force the opposition into mistakes.

Our guys blow coverages and give up big chunks of yards in a defense that is supposed to prevent that very thing.
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Old 09-24-2018, 08:18 AM   #608
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Trade for Earl

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Old 09-24-2018, 08:20 AM   #609
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We have tons of young talent we're going to have to pay and Kelce is approaching 30.

It's time to go all in right now.

DIG IT!
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Old 09-24-2018, 08:22 AM   #610
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Tight ends and RB's are killing the Chiefs in the pass game. The Corners are surprisingly playing pretty well. They gave up less than 100 yards yesterday against the 9ers WR's.

Safety play is really the issue.

I'm not big on trading away high picks and paying older players as you have a prime example in Seattle of what can happen, but if they do it, I get it.
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Old 09-24-2018, 08:23 AM   #611
Molitoth Molitoth is offline
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Originally Posted by htismaqe View Post
So whose fault is it if Sutton says "you need to be here" and the player goes somewhere else? Eric Murray is out of position on nearly every play. That's on Eric Murray, not Bob Sutton.



They only have so many guys on game day. We have to assume that the guys on the bench are actually worse than the ones on the field, or they wouldn't be on the bench. You're REALLY overestimating the impact of coaching on NFL players. Coaches scheme and call plays. When guys can't do the fundamentals, like tackling, that's a personnel issue. NFL defensive coordinators don't teach tackling. Heck, they CAN'T teach tackling. If they have to spend appreciable time teaching tackling, the team is screwed before they even start.



You know why you observe this? Because this is coming from the head coach, not from Bob Sutton. The same tendencies we see from the defense when we have a big lead or late in the game were present in the offense over the last 5 years. What's different this year? Patrick Mahomes replaced Alex Smith. We need a Mahomes on the defense, we don't even have Alex Smith.
I'm willing to admit that I could be completely wrong and everything you type could be the answer. You make many valid points.

I'm watching the defense as a "unit" rather than watching the secondary as "individual players" and judging their positions. If some of you guys that are more experienced in defensive schemes are digging your heals in that it's a couple of individual players, then I hope you are correct in your analyst.

Perhaps I am burying my head in the sand in thinking it's much easier to replace 1 guy, than it is 8-11 players.


And maybe it's not fair because it's 2 opposite sides of the ball, but I was a big promoter of the following scenario over the years. (and I was so right.)

While many Chiefs fans were claiming "Alex Smith is elite and needs an entire new OLine and some Elite Receivers." I was countering with... "no, we need a real QB who can make our OLine and WR's look better."
I was right. Mahomes made Albert Wilson look great. Mahomes makes Robinson look good. Mahomes is taking Hill to another level.
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Old 09-24-2018, 08:27 AM   #612
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I'd feel better about a big trade like this if they could wait a few weeks. See how the team responds to a bad game.
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Old 09-24-2018, 08:28 AM   #613
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I'm willing to admit that I could be completely wrong and everything you type could be the answer. You make many valid points.

I'm watching the defense as a "unit" rather than watching the secondary as "individual players" and judging their positions. If some of you guys that are more experienced in defensive schemes are digging your heals in that it's a couple of individual players, then I hope you are correct in your analyst.

Perhaps I am burying my head in the sand in thinking it's much easier to replace 1 guy, than it is 8-11 players.


And maybe it's not fair because it's 2 opposite sides of the ball, but I was a big promoter of the following scenario over the years. (and I was so right.)

While many Chiefs fans were claiming "Alex Smith is elite and needs an entire new OLine and some Elite Receivers." I was countering with... "no, we need a real QB who can make our OLine and WR's look better."
I was right. Mahomes made Albert Wilson look great. Mahomes makes Robinson look good. Mahomes is taking Hill to another level.
Defense is more about all 11 working together though. Little bit different.
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Old 09-24-2018, 08:29 AM   #614
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The Chiefs have some dudes with really bad football IQ's, Eric Murray doesn't understand how to drop into a zone properly...how the **** can you help a guy who's probably played since he was 5 figure that out?

Then the obvious question is this: How the hell is he on a NFL roster? I ask myself that question every time I see several of these guys out there....
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Old 09-24-2018, 08:29 AM   #615
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Well, if it's any consolation, you and I were in COMPLETE agreement on this....

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And maybe it's not fair because it's 2 opposite sides of the ball, but I was a big promoter of the following scenario over the years. (and I was so right.)

While many Chiefs fans were claiming "Alex Smith is elite and needs an entire new OLine and some Elite Receivers." I was countering with... "no, we need a real QB who can make our OLine and WR's look better."
I was right. Mahomes made Albert Wilson look great. Mahomes makes Robinson look good. Mahomes is taking Hill to another level.
And by the way, I could be wrong too. I've been wrong a lot in my near 2 decades posting here.
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