Movies and TV Star Wars Episode VII SPOILERS thread - Page 218

Hammock Parties · 08:14 PM

No holds barred spoiler discussion in this thread.

unlurking · 12-21-2015, 12:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud

Vader did probe Luke's mind in ROTJ.

Yep.

And while Vader did deflect blaster bolts, he never did freeze them in mid-flight. Nor did he ever freeze someone. Possible he could have done both, I don't know. But Ren's powers are not chump change. He is obviously not an unskilled user.

**DaneMcCloud** · 12-21-2015, 12:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RobBlake

Someone posted about different types of siths.. vader was a different animal than anakin. Anakin was a better swordsman just based on the movies.

Why would Disney allow for that to happen to their main character in Finn? right off the bat? That hand/arm cut off = him getting sliced up in the back and being in a coma.

Bad story telling, period.

Finn's character was completely unnecessary to the narrative.

unlurking · 12-21-2015, 12:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Buehler445

I never said he was a master. Ren wasn't operating in efficiency mode until Finn tagged him, the. He just shredded him. You can point to whatever you want as a plot hole. But he perried an attack from Finn and it obviously hurt him so in my mind he was trying to dispatch him without pain. Then Finn tagged him and he went to work. Which is probably what I would do too. If someone that was obviously weaker than was coming after me while I was busy and hurting, I'd probably just push him away rather than give him my absolute attention and work a combo into a submission hold.

OK, so like I said, it's not because Ren is untrained. Ren was SO MUCH better that he was able to toy with him until he got bored/angry/whatever.

My point stands. There are lot of possible reasons why the fight went down the way it did. Ren being untrained and/or unskilled is not one of them. Ren is a badass, and I think they are setting him up to be this trilogy's Vader.

**Buehler445** · 12-21-2015, 12:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud

Vader did probe Luke's mind in ROTJ.

I'm obviously not a Star Wars guru I figured he just felt changes in the force. Like ripples in the water.

unlurking · 12-21-2015, 12:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Buehler445

I'm obviously not a Star Wars guru I figured he just felt changes in the force. Like ripples in the water.

Yeah, and I'll shut up now. Getting worked up over one of the few bright sides to a movie I had a lot of problems with. Really wanted this movie to be badass, and in many ways it was. But much like Star Trek, it's all about the story for me, not the battles and special effects. Ren's character helped wash away some Hayden's Anakin for me, but most of the movie was rehash. So I'm holding out hope that Ren comes back in VIII and ****s shit up all over the place.

Fish · 12-21-2015, 12:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud

Bad story telling, period.

Finn's character was completely unnecessary to the narrative.

LOL... No..

**Buehler445** · 12-21-2015, 12:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by unlurking

OK, so like I said, it's not because Ren is untrained. Ren was SO MUCH better that he was able to toy with him until he got bored/angry/whatever.

My point stands. There are lot of possible reasons why the fight went down the way it did. Ren being untrained and/or unskilled is not one of them. Ren is a badass, and I think they are setting him up to be this trilogy's Vader.

Yeah. I think it's both. He's undisciplined and he was just toying with him. That doesn't make him not a bad ass, it just makes him undisciplined. Like anakin smoking off the sand people. Still a bad ass but certainly not disciplined in every aspect of his training.

I see what you're saying and I'm certainly not married to it as the end all be all of story telling, but it's not something that took me out of the experience.

**DaneMcCloud** · 12-21-2015, 12:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Buehler445

I never said he was a master. Ren wasn't operating in efficiency mode until Finn tagged him, the. He just shredded him. You can point to whatever you want as a plot hole. But he perried an attack from Finn and it obviously hurt him so in my mind he was trying to dispatch him without pain. Then Finn tagged him and he went to work. Which is probably what I would do too. If someone that was obviously weaker than was coming after me while I was busy and hurting, I'd probably just push him away rather than give him my absolute attention and work a combo into a submission hold.

It was a terrible sequence.

Finn just got asswhooped by a riot trooper, yet he can stand toe-to-toe with a fully trained Force user? That's just silly and spits in the face of the prior sox movies, The Clone Wars and Rebels series, which are canon.

Furthermore, Ren's fencing abilities are irrelevant. Seeing things before they happen is a Jedi trait, as described by Qui Gon in TPM.

Ren should have seen Finn's actions before the struck, rendering his attack completely useless.

RobBlake · 12-21-2015, 01:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by unlurking

Yeah, and I'll shut up now. Getting worked up over one of the few bright sides to a movie I had a lot of problems with. Really wanted this movie to be badass, and in many ways it was. But much like Star Trek, it's all about the story for me, not the battles and special effects. Ren's character helped wash away some Hayden's Anakin for me, but most of the movie was rehash. So I'm holding out hope that Ren comes back in VIII and ****s shit up all over the place.

i fully expect to see a poised Ren next movie. pure darkness

**DaneMcCloud** · 12-21-2015, 01:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fish

LOL... No..

LOL, yes.

What purpose did Finn's character serve to the story? For that matter, why was Poe Dameron necessary?

It was if Abrams and Kasdan took the character of Luke and split him into three characters: The orphaned, desert dwelling eventual Force user, the "best starlighter in the galaxy" and the heroic Luke, dressed as an Imperial Stormtrooper on the Death Star.

Both characters were unnecessary.

**Buehler445** · 12-21-2015, 01:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by unlurking

Yeah, and I'll shut up now. Getting worked up over one of the few bright sides to a movie I had a lot of problems with. Really wanted this movie to be badass, and in many ways it was. But much like Star Trek, it's all about the story for me, not the battles and special effects. Ren's character helped wash away some Hayden's Anakin for me, but most of the movie was rehash. So I'm holding out hope that Ren comes back in VIII and ****s shit up all over the place.

I think he will **** shit up in 8. It would be flat out horrible television if the war was all but over after the first episode in the trilogy.

And the story thing, I feel you on that, but I am not expecting it. I can go have fun without there being a really great story. It's just not the nature of the environment that movies are viewed. People just don't value a good story anymore. Look at what the good stories gross, the awards and all that. Good stories are rarely as successful as the shut your mind off flicks. Accordingly it makes sense for Disney to take the approach with their high priced intellectual property is bring back the OT cast and tell a story that resonates with the base. Going and a different direction and telling an untested story that runs a risk of alienating their target market. Then make sure you don't piss off the popcorn crowd and you'll make money. And they did.

**Buehler445** · 12-21-2015, 01:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud

It was a terrible sequence.

Finn just got asswhooped by a riot trooper, yet he can stand toe-to-toe with a fully trained Force user? That's just silly and spits in the face of the prior sox movies, The Clone Wars and Rebels series, which are canon.

Furthermore, Ren's fencing abilities are irrelevant. Seeing things before they happen is a Jedi trait, as described by Qui Gon in TPM.

Ren should have seen Finn's actions before the struck, rendering his attack completely useless.

I don't disagree with any of that. But it wasn't that unjustifiable that it took me out of the movie.

**DaneMcCloud** · 12-21-2015, 01:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Buehler445

I think he will **** shit up in 8. It would be flat out horrible television if the war was all but over after the first episode in the trilogy.

And the story thing, I feel you on that, but I am not expecting it. I can go have fun without there being a really great story. It's just not the nature of the environment that movies are viewed. People just don't value a good story anymore. Look at what the good stories gross, the awards and all that. Good stories are rarely as successful as the shut your mind off flicks. Accordingly it makes sense for Disney to take the approach with their high priced intellectual property is bring back the OT cast and tell a story that resonates with the base. Going and a different direction and telling an untested story that runs a risk of alienating their target market. Then make sure you don't piss off the popcorn crowd and you'll make money. And they did.

I disagree.

For $200 million dollars, Episode VII should have had a great story while making the die hard fans happy as well. For me, Abrams and company failed miserably.

Now as to VIII, Abrams and Kasdan both have said to expect a "weird" movie. Rian Johnson is an exceptional screenwriter and director but he's definitely not your usual "blockbuster" type writer/director (unlike IX's Colin Trevorrow).

I have no idea what to expect. I'll be happy if he takes VIII in a new direction, just as long as Force powers aren't given out like candy while trampling over everything that came before it.

It just glad that Abrams primary role is over.

**DaneMcCloud** · 12-21-2015, 01:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Buehler445

I don't disagree with any of that. But it wasn't that unjustifiable that it took me out of the movie.

I was taken out of the movie so frequently that by the time it was over, I was disgusted and didn't even stay for 30 seconds into the closing credits.

I realize that I'm in the minority in this forum but as I've mentioned before, I couldn't have been more disappointed.

Silock · 12-21-2015, 01:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by unlurking

OK, so like I said, it's not because Ren is untrained. Ren was SO MUCH better that he was able to toy with him until he got bored/angry/whatever.

My point stands. There are lot of possible reasons why the fight went down the way it did. Ren being untrained and/or unskilled is not one of them. Ren is a badass, and I think they are setting him up to be this trilogy's Vader.

I think he WILL be a badass, but he wasn't all the way there in this movie. Which is fine, because it gives the character room to grow.

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