***Other Games Thread - Week 1 2015***

[tk13]

First batch of late games... all three AFC West teams playing this afternoon trying to catch the 1st place Chiefs.

DEN vs BAL
SD vs DET
OAK vs CIN

TB vs TEN
ARI vs NO

Plus a few early games wrapping up. Go.

[BryanBusby]

But real talk, the Giants are fundamentally dumb.

Getting a flag beforehand for not being able to line up properly is inexcusable.

[wazu]

Originally Posted by RINGLEADER

Passing was stupid.

Eli throwing the ball was stupider.

I think the play call was worse. Shit happens in passing plays. You are in a situation where you are virtually assured of victory by running the ball. You call that pass and even if it looks open it might not connect which would have the same effect as what happened. I blame coaching for this much more than Eli.

[tk13]

Originally Posted by Hootie 2.0

no way

what?

you never go for it on 4th down there ...

seriously .. you get up 6 and then you give them the ball back with 50 seconds and no timeouts

and if your defense can't keep them out of the end zone, you have more problems

you don't let Romo have a chance to only have to gain 60 yards to get the thing into OT ... it's much harder to score a TD like that then have to get a field goal ...

50/50 they get a field goal in your scenario
10/90 they score a TD

there isn't a team in the NFL that goes for it on 4th down there unless, and this is still unlikely, they get the ball to the 1/2 yard line

but even then it would piss me off as a fan

maybe some day teams will stop playing pussy prevent defense in these situations

I wouldn't have gone it on 4th down. I said that might have been a smarter play than what they actually did. Sure Eli should've gone down, but a lot of things could've gone wrong there, and you're asking your QB to do something that wasn't natural... which as we see he obviously screwed up.

The best decision was to run it and force them to go 80 yards in 50 seconds for a TD.

My point that going 60 yards from their endzone for a FG in 45 seconds might have been a better option than going 80 yards for a TD in 90 seconds.

[Hootie]

we can debate the playcall all day ... I think both sides are right. Good points can be made for not passing, and good points can be made for passing. But Eli has to be smart enough to know that if it's not 100% there, take a dive.

the Giants lost because their defense couldn't keep a team from scoring that had no timeouts and 90 seconds

someday, someday teams will stop playing prevent in these situations and just play defense

[chiefzilla1501]

Originally Posted by wazu

I think the play call was worse. Shit happens in passing plays. You are in a situation where you are virtually assured of victory by running the ball. You call that pass and even if it looks open it might not connect which would have the same effect as what happened. I blame coaching for this much more than Eli.

Keep in mind that Romo has 2 game winning drives against the Giants in 2 years. Now it's 3 in 3 years. And the drive before, Romo scored a TD unbelievably quickly. I don't blame the playcall.

[ThaVirus]

If I'm playing Madden I run that on 3rd then take the field goal if I get stuffed.

[Hootie]

Originally Posted by tk13

I wouldn't have gone it on 4th down. I said that might have been a smarter play than what they actually did. Sure Eli should've gone down, but a lot of things could've gone wrong there, and you're asking your QB to do something that wasn't natural... which as we see he obviously screwed up.

The best decision was to run it and force them to go 80 yards in 50 seconds for a TD.

My point that going 60 yards from their endzone for a FG in 45 seconds might have been a better option than going 80 yards for a TD in 90 seconds.

Gotcha.

the extra time surely made things more realistic for the Cowboys but I also see no reason why they couldn't have done the same exact thing in 45 seconds ... they would have had to have made a few different passes and spiked the ball a few times ... and might have had to take their end zone shots from the 25 instead of the 10 ... but nothing the Giants did at the end there suggested to me Romo couldn't have done the exact same thing if the Giants played it safe and ran the ball and the Cowboys held them to 3

which is why I make the argument that you should pass the ball on 3rd down there since everyone KNOWS they're going to run the ball ... because Dallas has to sell out for the run ... and a TD wins the game outright no questions asked

but I operate under the "if the win is on the table, go for it" school of thought rather than the conventional play not to lose school of thought it seems almost all of these head coaches have ... including our very own Andy Reid

[tk13]

This is just arguing for the sake of arguing. I don't know how this is debatable. The result is right there in front of you. Eli messed it up. Of course he should've slid and run time off the clock, and he didn't.

We don't need to question whether anything could've gone wrong by passing. It did. The evidence is right in front of you. There's nothing hypothetical about it.

[tk13]

Originally Posted by Hootie 2.0

Gotcha.

the extra time surely made things more realistic for the Cowboys but I also see no reason why they couldn't have done the same exact thing in 45 seconds ... they would have had to have made a few different passes and spiked the ball a few times ... and might have had to take their end zone shots from the 25 instead of the 10 ... but nothing the Giants did at the end there suggested to me Romo couldn't have done the exact same thing if the Giants played it safe and ran the ball and the Cowboys held them to 3

which is why I make the argument that you should pass the ball on 3rd down there since everyone KNOWS they're going to run the ball ... because Dallas has to sell out for the run ... and a TD wins the game outright no questions asked

but I operate under the "if the win is on the table, go for it" school of thought rather than the conventional play not to lose school of thought it seems almost all of these head coaches have ... including our very own Andy Reid

It takes 10-15 seconds at best to lineup between plays. You give Romo 45-50 seconds... he basically has to go 80 yards in 3 plays. You tell me how he's going to do that. He's not.

And this wasn't a 3rd and 11 from midfield. They were at the goal line. They can still win the game by running the ball. You call your best running play and let it ride. You aren't playing to lose there, you still try to call a running play you think you can score on.

[Mother****erJones]

The only play was to run it. Plain and simple. Absolutely no need to throw it. Jennings was running well that drive. Just run it and kill clock or run it and score.

[chiefzilla1501]

Originally Posted by tk13

This is just arguing for the sake of arguing. I don't know how this is debatable. The result is right there in front of you. Eli messed it up. Of course he should've slid and run time off the clock, and he didn't.

We don't need to question whether anything could've gone wrong by passing. It did. The evidence is right in front of you. There's nothing hypothetical about it.

And you don't know if Tony Romo executes that same TD drive even with less time. Especially with the bad defense the Giants were playing in the 4Q. That's a hypothetical too.

Coughlin has a ton of history against Romo. This is the third year in a row Romo beat him on the final drive. I can understand why he may not want to give him the chance to win on one drive. Passing is a good idea. Just go for something more conservative and instruct your QB to take a knee if nothing is there.

[tk13]

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501

And you don't know if Tony Romo executes that same TD drive even with less time. Especially with the bad defense the Giants were playing in the 4Q. That's a hypothetical too.

Coughlin has a ton of history against Romo. This is the third year in a row Romo beat him on the final drive. I can understand why he may not want to give him the chance to win on one drive. Passing is a good idea. Just go for something more conservative and instruct your QB to take a knee if nothing is there.

No. I do know. Unless Romo has the ability to stop time. He did not have any timeouts guys. You're talking 10 to 15 seconds to line up between plays. 50 seconds left. There's no way. At best they get a hail mary attempt.

Running on 3rd down from midfield is conservative. Running from the 1 yard line is not conservative.

[Hootie]

...?

what?

All I'm saying is I think, if I'm offensive coordinator, I call a play-action pass out of heavy to end the game there ... and if the Cowboys sniff it out and my TE's are covered, I have Eli take the sack and take the 6 point lead and turn the game over to my defense.

the play call wasn't the issue, it was Eli not taking a knee rather than throwing the ball away ... and I'd say half of that is on Eli (he's a veteran), and half of that is on the playcall which should have included that little wrinkle at the end

admittedly, until chiefzilla mentioned the dive scenario, it didn't cross my mind, either. I liked the aggressive play call. If it works out and they score the TD there, this conversation doesn't exist.

The problem is, and this happens in the baseball threads all of the time, people use hindsight to support their arguments.

The problem wasn't the play call, it was the execution and the Giants being prepared for plan B on the play call if the play isn't there, like it wasn't.

on top of that, their defense let a team march down the field, without fight, to score a TD without even blinking an eye to win the game

a lot of things contributed to the Giants loss there ... the 3rd down play was only part of it

[Mother****erJones]

Originally Posted by Al Bundy

The Cowpies and Romo did nothing to deserve that, that was ALL on the Giants.

Romo just drove the length of the field for a TD with about 1:17 and no TOs. But hey, he didn't deserve it.

[tk13]

And that math does work out if you think about it. He had a minute and a half and it took him 6 plays. So you give him about 50 seconds, you give him about 3-4 successful plays. And he was flying there. Really efficient drive.