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View Poll Results: A-Rod; "Normal" HOF or "*"
PED don't matter, he paid the price, HOF! 18 26.47%
"*" 47 69.12%
Gaz made him do it! 0 0%
Who is A-Rod? 3 4.41%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 68. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 06-20-2015, 08:25 AM  
GloryDayz GloryDayz is offline
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A-Rod, HOF or "*"
After seeing that he got his 3000th hit I was dejected. Perhaps that's because I don't like the Yankees, perhaps it's because I don't think any of the hits in his PED years should count (so he's way behind 3000). No matter what, I just think it's a terrible message to send to kids/young players that PEDs will cost you a little something, but when all is said and done the league will act like it never happened.
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Old 06-20-2015, 03:45 PM   #91
cosmo20002 cosmo20002 is offline
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I don't understand why people hold gambling or throwing games against players, at least in terms of getting into the HOF. It is unethical, and said player who was throwing games should be banned for sometime but how does that effect if they get into the HOF?

In Joe Jackson's case, it HURT his numbers by throwing games. So why should it matter for his hall of fame candidacy? He was not cheating numbers, at least not in a positive direction.

In the case of Pete Rose, as I understand it, Pete Rose bet ON HIS TEAM. If this is really the case, I don't care at all. He is being a confident ball player, he played 100% all the time anyway, I don't see how this is a big deal. I know people like to think of things as pure, but throwing a game is 1 million times worse than betting on your team, that you play on, to win.
OK, a few things...
Basically, you are being judged as a player...and that usually comes down to how many HRs you hit, etc. But if you do something as despicable as throwing a game, that is part of your resume as a player and I think should be considered when there is a decision about whether to honor you.

With Rose, it is just improper to bet on the team as the manager. What message does it send to his bookie when he didn't bet? It puts him in all kinds of uncompromising positions and creates an appearance of impropriety.

On a side note, the commissioner is not keeping Rose from the Hall of Fame, at least not directly. The HOF is not operated by MLB. He is on MLB's banned list. The HOF has chosen not to consider anyone that is on MLB's banned list, but that is their decision.
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Old 06-20-2015, 03:45 PM   #92
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I don't understand why people hold gambling or throwing games against players, at least in terms of getting into the HOF. It is unethical, and said player who was throwing games should be banned for sometime but how does that effect if they get into the HOF?

In Joe Jackson's case, it HURT his numbers by throwing games. So why should it matter for his hall of fame candidacy? He was not cheating numbers, at least not in a positive direction.

In the case of Pete Rose, as I understand it, Pete Rose bet ON HIS TEAM. If this is really the case, I don't care at all. He is being a confident ball player, he played 100% all the time anyway, I don't see how this is a big deal. I know people like to think of things as pure, but throwing a game is 1 million times worse than betting on your team, that you play on, to win.
The pete rose ban makes more sense when you look at games he didn't bet on.
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Old 06-20-2015, 03:49 PM   #93
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Those players in the 20s never really trained though, most couldn't as pay for baseball players was really low. Ruth was a naturally strong guy who played probably a fair number of his games hungover. He also played in an era when the spitball and junkball was common.

Give some of those guys in the 20 and 30s modern training and I am sure they would stack up.
They also played against guys who's main job was say, a butcher. I think what you just stated seems to argue otherwise, actually.
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Old 06-20-2015, 04:03 PM   #94
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They also played against guys who's main job was say, a butcher. I think what you just stated seems to argue otherwise, actually.
wut
Some may have had off-season jobs, but they still played April-October. Spring training, too.
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Old 06-20-2015, 04:38 PM   #95
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wut
Some may have had off-season jobs, but they still played April-October. Spring training, too.
The superstars played all year round by barnstorming in the south, Mexico, and Caribbean during the winter months.
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Old 06-20-2015, 04:46 PM   #96
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"Juiced ball" is nonsense. Somebody linked a study from Rhode Island. Compare a ball from the early 60s 30 years later, stored in unknown conditions... The deadspin article was completely inconclusive, noting that some balls "outperformed" while others "underperformed."
It's not nonsense. Can baseballs be juiced? Yes. Were they? Who knows. What I do know is that inside and outside of the steroid era, there are unexplained power surges. And you can't just credit that to players getting even juicier.

I'm not naive to think steroids didn't play a part in more home runs. But people on here want to believe it can double a guy like Brady Anderson's home run production. That's just silly. Bad expansion era pitching + hitter friendly ball parks were a huge part of it. Smaller strike zone + inability to throw inside. And yes, because baseballs can be juiced it's more than fair to ask if either juiced baseballs or doctored bats may have contributed to it. You just never know. To me, it's better to at least leave the possibility open to it vs. just assuming that a guy can single-handedly hit twice as many home runs just by lifting weights.
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Old 06-20-2015, 04:50 PM   #97
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Old 06-20-2015, 04:58 PM   #98
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This...
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Old 06-20-2015, 06:26 PM   #99
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Old 06-20-2015, 06:30 PM   #100
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The worst part is he will get in, and Yankee fans will be like New England fans and be able to celebrate things enabled through cheating.

The integrity of the game is diluted further, but as long as there's profit, nobody in the front office cares.

I hope other players just learned a lesson of process, and they know exactly what I mean.
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Old 06-20-2015, 07:03 PM   #101
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It's not nonsense. Can baseballs be juiced? Yes. Were they? Who knows. What I do know is that inside and outside of the steroid era, there are unexplained power surges. And you can't just credit that to players getting even juicier.

I'm not naive to think steroids didn't play a part in more home runs. But people on here want to believe it can double a guy like Brady Anderson's home run production. That's just silly. Bad expansion era pitching + hitter friendly ball parks were a huge part of it. Smaller strike zone + inability to throw inside. And yes, because baseballs can be juiced it's more than fair to ask if either juiced baseballs or doctored bats may have contributed to it. You just never know. To me, it's better to at least leave the possibility open to it vs. just assuming that a guy can single-handedly hit twice as many home runs just by lifting weights.
Oh...you were just saying that they COULD BE. Because it pretty much sounded like you said they were--especially when you include it with definite factors like steroid use, ballpark size, and expansion pitching, all of which are easily seen and/or documented. The fact that no one has ever shown reasonable evidence of a new ball indicates that there was no new ball and that people should stop mentioning it as if there was.
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Old 06-20-2015, 08:07 PM   #102
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Could give a shit less if he cheated or not. We know a lot more of these guys(pro athletes)cheat or have cheated, we just don't necessarily know about it. At this point the HOF issue with baseball players is so clouded I think it has diminished the HOF. So who cares? Put him in and anyone else you want, I guess
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Old 06-20-2015, 08:09 PM   #103
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Lol. God, they hate him.
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Old 06-20-2015, 08:27 PM   #104
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Lol. God, they hate him.
Well don't quote me on this, but I have a little respect for those particular NYC people...
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Old 06-20-2015, 10:34 PM   #105
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Oh...you were just saying that they COULD BE. Because it pretty much sounded like you said they were--especially when you include it with definite factors like steroid use, ballpark size, and expansion pitching, all of which are easily seen and/or documented. The fact that no one has ever shown reasonable evidence of a new ball indicates that there was no new ball and that people should stop mentioning it as if there was.
That hasn't stopped people from speculating that steroids was a major contributor to home run gains. I don't see you calling them out. PEDs have been around for a while. Despite that, there are still curious eras where home run totals either liven or deaden. Not by a little. By a pretty significant amount.

The idea that some of that wasn't influenced by the ball especially at a time when the MLB was desperate for ratings isn't farfetched whatsoever.
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