**Colts vs. Broncos Week 1 SNF Game Thread**

[tk13]

Manning vs. the Colts, round II.

[Hootie]

I'll give Andrew Luck credit for one thing...

He has the worst coaching of the three in debate. And it's not close. Their offense is extremely vanilla and predictable, and they aren't forward thinking minds by any means.

That puts him at a disadvantage.

I don't think Seattle wins that Super Bowl with Andrew Luck at the helm. I just don't. I don't think he's as good as Russell Wilson yet. And honestly, I don't think he's even close.

[Hootie]

Originally Posted by PizzaDoughz

Don't bother he's not being objective at all because of his extreme love for Wilson. He just claimed he is the second best QB in the league

I'd take Wilson over anyone, honestly.

Over Rodgers. Over Peyton. Certainly over Luck.

[OldSchool]

Originally Posted by Hootie 2.0

I really want to know how people will watch an Andrew Luck NFL game, and then watch a Russell Wilson NFL game, and then conclude that Andrew Luck is a better football player (at this point) than Russell Wilson.

Outside of Peyton Manning, I don't think there is anyone that is playing the QB position better than Russell Wilson in the NFL. Period.

He doesn't make many mistakes. He doesn't miss many throws. He has great accuracy, arm strength, and a LIGHTNING fast release.

He extends plays better than anyone in the NFL.

His eyes are always looking down the field, and while he's scrambling he has amazing awareness and continues to scan the field until the last possible moment where he either finds an open receiver, throws the ball away, or runs for positive yards...

He's a great leader. His READ OPTION THREAT helps open up this *MUCH TALKED ABOUT* running game...he never makes the wrong read on that read option play, either...

He literally has no weaknesses. Even being short hasn't seemed to cause him any issues.

Dude, Wilson does make mistakes, he just gets away with it because he has such a great team around him. No QB is always perfect like you imply that Wilson is (he had several games where he was under 50% completion and his TD to INT line was 4:3). If you force Wilson to stay in the pocket and prevent him from rolling out where he becomes dangerous, he will struggle still. To say that he never makes mistakes is just straight out lying.

However, with that said, he is one of the most efficient QBs in the NFL and does make some great throws when he is asked to. But you are kidding yourself if you don't think that the offense runs through Lynch and the other RBs. Lynch is as important to that Seahawks offense as Charles is to ours. He forces teams to load the box and gives Wilson favorable match-ups on the outside. The Seahawks PA plays work so well because Lynch scares defenses, they almost always bite on him because Lynch cannot be tackled 1 on 1.

Seattle's OC has done a fantastic job with the pieces that he has on that offense. I wonder how well Wilson plays once he loses that OC of his.

[ThaVirus]

Originally Posted by tk13

I can't believe I'm sitting here arguing:

QB A.) Has a 20+ ranked defense that allowed 40+ ppg in the playoffs last year and a starting RB that averages 2.9 ypc.

Does not have to carry his team as much as:

QB B.) Throws for 200 yds/game. Has a defense that allowed 14 ppg last year, and 13 ppg game in the playoffs, has a starting RB that has run for 2800 yards the last two seasons in a pass first league. Threw for 175 yards/game and 3 TD combined during his Super Bowl run.

On what planet is that equal? Apparently ChiefsPlanet. One played with a defense that allowed 40 PPG in the playoffs. The other played with a defense that allowed 13 PPG in the playoffs. I don't even understand the logic needed to come to some of the conclusions you guys are making here.

I would never argue that Luck has a better team than Wilson. Wilson's team is way better and it's not even close. I'm saying that people love to point out how great Wilson's defense is when arguing that he's better than Luck, but you should only do that when you're arguing wins, which is idiotic because it's a team stat. You can't necessarily judge individual performance based off of a team stat.

While people are talking about how bad Luck has it, why are they not mentioning that Wilson got to the Super Bowl with his #3, #4, #5 WRs and Zach Miller at TE? Prior to the Super Bowl, if you asked people to rate that weapon group, everyone would put them in the bottom third of the league, easily. Plus, if you'll remember, the Seahawks had to deal with some serious offensive line issues during the regular season.

And if you want to talk about the Super Bowl specifically, the mighty Lynch only had 40 yards rushing. I don't feel like looking up the stats, but Wilson converted a ridiculous percentage of 3rd downs on passing plays. People like to point out that they'd have won the game even if the offense didn't score a single point, but Wilson did everything he could to carry that offense, put points on the board, and, more importantly, keep Manning on the sidelines.

[tk13]

Originally Posted by Hootie 2.0

this is the same guy who has argued with me for years that Brady is better than Manning because of his Super Bowl rings...

nevermind the fact that, during those Super Bowl runs, Brady wasn't putting up supreme numbers and relied on the fact his defense, coaching and special teams were always elite...with the offense doing their part as well

So you argue for Tom over Peyton...

but then 10 years later Russell can't be compared to Andrew because Russell isn't asked to do as much

yeah, ok

I think you're confusing me with milkman. Tom Brady wouldn't have even won his first Super Bowl without Drew Bledsoe. People forget that. But Brady lit it up in his second Super Bowl against Carolina. I don't remember what his exact numbers were but he had a big day, and of course led the drive to win it.

I think it's a team sport. I don't know when I have ever deviated from that. I think Pats fans are to look back and regret some of the cheap moves New England has made as opposed to trying to surround Brady with more talent here at the end of his career. I don't think QB's can win Super Bowls by themselves. I think that's one of the biggest flaws in the discussions we have on CP. Look no further than last season. There's no universe where Russell Wilson is as talented as Peyton Manning, but Wilson's team whipped the daylights out of Manning last year.

[Hootie]

People don't even talk about the little things Wilson does...

4th and 7 against San Fran, NFC Championship Game...do or die situation...

dude busts out a HARD COUNT, gets San Fran to jump, and then launches a beautiful deep pass to his receiver for a TD on a free play

His football IQ is through the roof...he's literally going to be the face of the NFL for the next decade. He's unbelievable.

[Hootie]

well I guess all I can say is

at least we don't have Joe Flacco

and at least no one thinks he's a good QB anymore

[tk13]

I don't know why I'm sitting here wasting my time arguing with Hootie. There's no gray areas. The people he loves are perfect, the people he decides he doesn't like are overrated.

This is a giant waste of time.

[BigMeatballDave]

Originally Posted by Hootie 2.0

People don't even talk about the little things Wilson does...

4th and 7 against San Fran, NFC Championship Game...do or die situation...

dude busts out a HARD COUNT, gets San Fran to jump, and then launches a beautiful deep pass to his receiver for a TD on a free play

His football IQ is through the roof...he's literally going to be the face of the NFL for the next decade. He's unbelievable.

Because he's on a loaded team.

You know, that D that shut Manning down?

[ThaVirus]

I'd still take Rodgers over Wilson at this point. Rodgers is ****ing nasty.

Wilson is EASILY the best of the young QBs though and already better than guys like Romo and Rivers, in my opinion.

[Hootie]

Maybe.

I think Andrew Luck is good. I don't think he's great (yet). Thus, I think he's super overrated by the masses.

I KNOW Russell Wilson is great.

I KNOW Aaron Rodgers is great, but he is overrated as well. Because he's not as great as everyone thinks he is. He's great, but not great great.

Peyton Manning is great, great, great. At least. Maybe 4 greats.

Tom Brady peaked at 2 greats. He's probably down to great at this point.

[Rams Fan]

I thought Hootie had a hard on for Kaepernick?

[tk13]

Well Rodgers is a different story. I'd take Rodgers over everyone if I was starting a franchise. Then Luck.

[Hootie]

Rodgers holds the ball too long and ends up taking too many sacks. Doesn't seem like a great leader, either. Those are his two flaws. Everything else is just about the best I've ever seen. Amazing release, great feet, impeccable accuracy. Sometimes he needs to just take what the defense gives him rather than trying to make a big play all of the time.

[Hootie]

Originally Posted by Rams Fan

I thought Hootie had a hard on for Kaepernick?

I do.

He's incredible as well.

QB's Rodgers and younger, I'd take them in this order I think:

1. Wilson
2. Rodgers
3. Kaepernick
4. Luck