The Le'Veon Bell Mock - Page 2

O.city · 12-08-2018, 01:30 PM

He’s a year older and I can get s running back for pennies in the draft

No thanks

Chris Meck · 12-08-2018, 01:31 PM

Bell is a TERRIBLE fit for this offense. This offense's entire design is built on confusion, misdirection, and players with varied skillsets.

Bell does not fit AT ALL.

This will not happen.

kccrow · 12-08-2018, 02:12 PM

I only did Bell because Direkshun wanted to see a mock done with the Chiefs getting him. I'd go after different players. Also, I think you have to factor in long-term cap health and with Jones, Hill, and Bell you'd have some hefty salaries on the docket the next few seasons. I don't think you can do that, I think you have to get some cheaper options and spread the money out.

The Eagles cap situation could mean Jordan Hicks hits the market at ILB and he'd be a good get. I'd probably still look hard at Darby on a 1-year, incentive laden, "prove-it" deal coming off that ACL. I'd even sign him long-term if he works out well come March but that is pushing the timetable a bit. He'd actually be perfectly on par for training camp at 9 months in.

I'm doubting the Vikings will be able to keep Brett Jones in the fold and I think he's a great target to get relatively cheap to compete as the starting Center.

Markus Golden is a guy I like that I think you could get cheap as a rotational OLB and if he gets back to playing at the level he was before his injury in 2017 then you have a steal.

To be honest, though, this free agent class on the defensive side of the ball is kind of bad unless you want to way overpay for old guys. I'm not buying guys like Sheldon Richardson, Ndamkung Suh, Earl Thomas, and Lamarcus Joyner at their age and salary. The CB class is 2nd rate. Darby was the lone good one and he's got that injury. LB is a little weak because the top guys probably won't be there. You'd have to be dreaming to think Baltimore lets CJ Mosely walk, for example. Hicks may not be in there either, but at least there's a passing chance. The Eagles have to dump Foles to get to enough cap room to sign their draft picks. After that, they'll likely dump Chris Long and Michael Bennett. That would put them at +22m or so, which would be enough to sign Hicks. Not sure if they could also fit Brandon Graham back in. Even if Hicks comes available, can the Chiefs fit another salary there because he's probably going to be on par with Hitchens?

All that said, I'll prep another one similar to this without Bell to outline more of my thoughts.

Chargem · 12-08-2018, 03:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kccrow

I only did Bell because Direkshun wanted to see a mock done with the Chiefs getting him. I'd go after different players. Also, I think you have to factor in long-term cap health and with Jones, Hill, and Bell you'd have some hefty salaries on the docket the next few seasons. I don't think you can do that, I think you have to get some cheaper options and spread the money out.

The Eagles cap situation could mean Jordan Hicks hits the market at ILB and he'd be a good get. I'd probably still look hard at Darby on a 1-year, incentive laden, "prove-it" deal coming off that ACL. I'd even sign him long-term if he works out well come March but that is pushing the timetable a bit. He'd actually be perfectly on par for training camp at 9 months in.

I'm doubting the Vikings will be able to keep Brett Jones in the fold and I think he's a great target to get relatively cheap to compete as the starting Center.

Markus Golden is a guy I like that I think you could get cheap as a rotational OLB and if he gets back to playing at the level he was before his injury in 2017 then you have a steal.

To be honest, though, this free agent class on the defensive side of the ball is kind of bad unless you want to way overpay for old guys. I'm not buying guys like Sheldon Richardson, Ndamkung Suh, Earl Thomas, and Lamarcus Joyner at their age and salary. The CB class is 2nd rate. Darby was the lone good one and he's got that injury. LB is a little weak because the top guys probably won't be there. You'd have to be dreaming to think Baltimore lets CJ Mosely walk, for example. Hicks may not be in there either, but at least there's a passing chance. The Eagles have to dump Foles to get to enough cap room to sign their draft picks. After that, they'll likely dump Chris Long and Michael Bennett. That would put them at +22m or so, which would be enough to sign Hicks. Not sure if they could also fit Brandon Graham back in. Even if Hicks comes available, can the Chiefs fit another salary there because he's probably going to be on par with Hitchens?

All that said, I'll prep another one similar to this without Bell to outline more of my thoughts.

It really is an excellent draft, and I look forward to seeing one without Bell.

Corner does seem like the biggest puzzle to me, the Chiefs seem reluctant to start rookies straight away and yet the the free agent market is dire, one of Nelson or Scandrick has to come back next year?

On the DL, I agree the FA market isn't great but with how good the draft looks, a veteran and a high pick seems like a very workable combo.

On the ILB front, how would you feel about Manti Te'o, particularly if the Chiefs were switching to a 4-3? Could be had for cheap I imagine.

I think Safety is the obvious spot to add in FA, with Collins, Clinton-Dix, Thomas, Mathieu, Boston and Reid all being available and immediate upgrades, surely someone can be had on a team friendly deal considering how the safety market was last year.

pugsnotdrugs19 · 12-08-2018, 02:50 PM

We’ll see how the season unfolds here but the more I consider it, I’m not sure it makes any sense to keep Houston over Ford right now. If we’re going to get rid of one in any capacity, that is.

I’d prefer to probably keep both for 2019, but it’s clear that one is ascending and the other is not. I don’t expect either to be let go this offseason but if they do go that direction, jsut some food for thought.

If we’re lucky, maybe they can Berry AND Houston to restructure those contracts or take pay cuts for the sake of the rest of the roster. All Berry and Houston ever talk about is the goal, bringing the Lombardi to KC finally.

Well, I say put your money where your mouth is because neither has earned nearly enough of the money on their deals thus far.

**SAUTO** · 12-08-2018, 04:14 PM

I'm out on bell. He's not a fit here at all

**The Franchise** · 12-10-2018, 04:23 PM

I'd take out Bell (yes I realize he was the point of the mock) and replace him with Coleman. He'll cost way less and you can spend that money to get a better CB. Not really a fan of going into the season with Nelson and Gaines.

kccrow · 12-10-2018, 06:24 PM

In playing around with altering this mock and trying to sign Dee Ford in lieu of Bell, it became mind-numbingly apparent to me that there is a fundamental flaw in the thought process in any one of these options where we extend Hill, extend Jones, and pay Ford or a big name free agent. The issue is not that we can't "squeeze" them under the cap for 2019, it's what happens in 2020. The cap gets unbelievably tight.

Here's an example of what I was thinking in a version 2.0 of this one without Bell from a signings perspective (note that I try to assume market values relative to current contracts and go from there)...
Extensions
Hill: 5 years/$95.0m contract extension with $65m in guarantees, $42m guaranteed at signing, and $20m signing bonus. Estimated Cap Hits 2019: 6.097 2020: 18.75 2021: 19.25 2022: 19.75 2023: 18.25 2024: 15.00

Jones: 5 years, $81.0m contract extension with $40.0m guaranteed at signing including $20.0m signing bonus. Estimated Cap Hits 2019: 5.98 2020: 13.00 2021: 15.00 2022: 16.00 2023: 17.00 2024: 16.00

Tags
FS Jordan Lucas: RFA Original Round Tender estimated $2.02m
OC Austin Reiter: RFA Original Round Tender estimated $2.02m (I'm just going to leave this in here until the details of his extension are released)
DL Justin Hamilton: ERFA Tender estimated $570k + $30k bonus
PK Harrison Butker: ERFA Tender estimated $570k + $30k bonus
WR Markus Kemp: ERFA Tender estimated $570k + $30k bonus
WR Gehrig Deiter: ERFA Tender estimated $570k + $30k bonus

Signings
OC Brett Jones (MIN): 2 years/$5.5m with $2.25m guaranteed and $1.0m signing bonus. Estimated Cap Hits 2019: 2.50 2020: 3.00

ED Markus Golden (ARZ): 2 years/$7.0m with $1.50m signing bonus. Estimated Cap Hits 2019: 2.40 2020: 4.60

TE Maxx Williams (BAL): 3 years/$9.0m with $1.5m signing bonus, and $1.0m roster bonuses in 2020 and 2021 if he's on the roster the 5th day of the new league year. Estimated Cap Hits 2019: 2.00 2020: 3.25 2021: 3.75

Re-Signings
CB Steven Nelson: 4 years/$31.0m with $10.0m guaranteed at signing, and $6.0m signing bonus and another $6.0m guaranteed (salary) if on the roster the 5th day of the 2020 league year. Estimated Cap Hits 2019: 5.50 2020: 7.75 2021: 8.50 2022: 9.25

ED Dee Ford: 5 years/$86.00m with 41.00m guaranteed at signing including a 20.00m signing bonus. Estimated Cap Hits 2019: 13.00 2020: 16.00 2021: 17.00 2022: 20.00 2023 20.00

FB Anthony Sherman: 4 years/$8.4m with $5.0m guaranteed and $2.4m signing bonus. Estimated Cap Hits 2019: 1.90 2020: 2.00 2021: 2.20 2022: 2.30

RB Spencer Ware: 2 year/$3.0m with $500k roster bonuses in each year. Estimated Cap Hits: 2019: $1.40 2020: 1.60

Cuts
SS Eric Berry: June 1 Designation

Let Walk
DE Allen Bailey, CB Orlando Scandrick, TE Demetrius Harris, FS Josh Shaw, RB Damien Williams, OC Mitch Morse, FS Ron Parker, WR De'Anthony Thomas, OLB Frank Zombo, CB Steven Nelson, ILB Terrence Smith, WR Chris Conley

This put me at 5.72m in space for 2019 with the draft class signing... But only 1.93m in space for 2020. That's where I think a Houston extension with 2020 salary converted to a bonus similar to the deal Terrell Suggs got would be a win or the Chiefs would have to cut him. As well, they'd have to cut Sammy Watkins in all likelihood in order to give them cap to play with.

Obviously I could not sign any street free agents and gain $10.8m for 2020. It's unlikely KC signs nobody. If I choose not to cut Berry, that space gets eaten up and then some. Basically, to keep Berry you're looking at no FAs and not re-signing Nelson if you want to keep Ford.

So the question here is do you keep Ford or Berry or neither, assuming you want to keep Jones and Hill? You could choose not to extend Hill or Jones and then re-sign them in 2020 but you may not save money versus the extend now contract. I don't think you can go this offseason choosing to extend neither because you can't franchise them both.

**The Franchise** · 12-10-2018, 06:34 PM

Cut in 2019:

Eric Berry (June 1st cut)
Daniel Sorensen
Reggie Ragland

That gives you an extra $13.5 (roughly) million in cap space before any new deals. So around $53 million to work with.

Cut in 2020:

Sammy Watkins
Justin Houston

That gives you an extra $31.5 million in cap space to work with in 2020.

kccrow · 12-10-2018, 06:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Pest

Cut in 2019:

Eric Berry (June 1st cut)
Daniel Sorensen
Reggie Ragland

That gives you an extra $13.5 (roughly) million in cap space before any new deals. So around $53 million to work with.

Cut in 2020:

Sammy Watkins
Justin Houston

That gives you an extra $31.5 million in cap space to work with in 2020.

If you intend to cut Houston, I'd think your intent would be to reach a long term deal with Ford in 2019?

Personally, I'm not a fan of getting rid of Houston, but I think he needs to be extended for less money. Obviously we'd have to see how 2019 went for him first.

**The Franchise** · 12-10-2018, 06:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kccrow

If you intend to cut Houston, I'd think your intent would be to reach a long term deal with Ford in 2019?

Personally, I'm not a fan of getting rid of Houston, but I think he needs to be extended for less money. Obviously we'd have to see how 2019 went for him first.

Yeah. I'd hope to structure it like the Watkins contract. 3 or 4 years with a chance to get out after two if we need to.

Is it possible to keep Ford, Jones, Hill AND Houston if you cut Berry in 2019?

**RealSNR** · 12-10-2018, 10:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Pest

Cut in 2019:

Eric Berry (June 1st cut)
Daniel Sorensen
Reggie Ragland

That gives you an extra $13.5 (roughly) million in cap space before any new deals. So around $53 million to work with.

Cut in 2020:

Sammy Watkins
Justin Houston

That gives you an extra $31.5 million in cap space to work with in 2020.

Clark was a ****ing idiot and intervened to get Berry that contract in the first place.

Would he let Veach cut him like that?

BryanBusby · 12-10-2018, 11:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RealSNR

Clark was a ****ing idiot and intervened to get Berry that contract in the first place.

Would he let Veach cut him like that?

Absolutely not. He's not getting cut and thinking about it is some weird CP fantasy.

kccrow · 12-11-2018, 01:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RealSNR

Clark was a ****ing idiot and intervened to get Berry that contract in the first place.

Would he let Veach cut him like that?

I'm wondering if Clark can look at that situation and not agree that Berry has missed far too much time for the contract he's getting. IF Berry could have offseason surgery to fix the issue then I wouldn't be so hell-bent on sending him packing but the very fact that he didn't have the surgery done right away so that he could be available and playing right now downright pisses me off. Clark can't be on board with constantly throwing money down the drain, quite literally Berry's tub drain.

**RealSNR** · 12-14-2018, 06:53 AM

UChieffyBugger is a butt****ing moron

12-08-2018, 01:30 PM	#1
O.city In Search of a Life Join Date: Jul 2009 Casino cash: $2504064	He’s a year older and I can get s running back for pennies in the draft No thanks
Posts: 81,437

12-08-2018, 01:31 PM	#2
Chris Meck MVP Join Date: May 2001 Location: midtown KC Casino cash: $1684910	Bell is a TERRIBLE fit for this offense. This offense's entire design is built on confusion, misdirection, and players with varied skillsets. Bell does not fit AT ALL. This will not happen.
Posts: 17,571

12-08-2018, 02:12 PM	#3
kccrow MVP Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: Michigan Casino cash: $3017078	I only did Bell because Direkshun wanted to see a mock done with the Chiefs getting him. I'd go after different players. Also, I think you have to factor in long-term cap health and with Jones, Hill, and Bell you'd have some hefty salaries on the docket the next few seasons. I don't think you can do that, I think you have to get some cheaper options and spread the money out. The Eagles cap situation could mean Jordan Hicks hits the market at ILB and he'd be a good get. I'd probably still look hard at Darby on a 1-year, incentive laden, "prove-it" deal coming off that ACL. I'd even sign him long-term if he works out well come March but that is pushing the timetable a bit. He'd actually be perfectly on par for training camp at 9 months in. I'm doubting the Vikings will be able to keep Brett Jones in the fold and I think he's a great target to get relatively cheap to compete as the starting Center. Markus Golden is a guy I like that I think you could get cheap as a rotational OLB and if he gets back to playing at the level he was before his injury in 2017 then you have a steal. To be honest, though, this free agent class on the defensive side of the ball is kind of bad unless you want to way overpay for old guys. I'm not buying guys like Sheldon Richardson, Ndamkung Suh, Earl Thomas, and Lamarcus Joyner at their age and salary. The CB class is 2nd rate. Darby was the lone good one and he's got that injury. LB is a little weak because the top guys probably won't be there. You'd have to be dreaming to think Baltimore lets CJ Mosely walk, for example. Hicks may not be in there either, but at least there's a passing chance. The Eagles have to dump Foles to get to enough cap room to sign their draft picks. After that, they'll likely dump Chris Long and Michael Bennett. That would put them at +22m or so, which would be enough to sign Hicks. Not sure if they could also fit Brandon Graham back in. Even if Hicks comes available, can the Chiefs fit another salary there because he's probably going to be on par with Hitchens? All that said, I'll prep another one similar to this without Bell to outline more of my thoughts.
Posts: 12,682

12-08-2018, 02:50 PM	#5
pugsnotdrugs19 SUPER BOWL CHAMPIONS Join Date: Aug 2013 Casino cash: $9119447	We’ll see how the season unfolds here but the more I consider it, I’m not sure it makes any sense to keep Houston over Ford right now. If we’re going to get rid of one in any capacity, that is. I’d prefer to probably keep both for 2019, but it’s clear that one is ascending and the other is not. I don’t expect either to be let go this offseason but if they do go that direction, jsut some food for thought. If we’re lucky, maybe they can Berry AND Houston to restructure those contracts or take pay cuts for the sake of the rest of the roster. All Berry and Houston ever talk about is the goal, bringing the Lombardi to KC finally. Well, I say put your money where your mouth is because neither has earned nearly enough of the money on their deals thus far. Last edited by pugsnotdrugs19; 12-08-2018 at 02:55 PM..
Posts: 26,378

12-08-2018, 04:14 PM	#6
SAUTO Shit Join Date: Jun 2008 Casino cash: $10039067	I'm out on bell. He's not a fit here at all
Posts: 55,715

12-10-2018, 04:23 PM	#7
The Franchise Most Valuable Villain Join Date: Dec 2006 Casino cash: $2805047	I'd take out Bell (yes I realize he was the point of the mock) and replace him with Coleman. He'll cost way less and you can spend that money to get a better CB. Not really a fan of going into the season with Nelson and Gaines.
Posts: 92,298

12-10-2018, 06:24 PM	#8
kccrow MVP Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: Michigan Casino cash: $3017078	In playing around with altering this mock and trying to sign Dee Ford in lieu of Bell, it became mind-numbingly apparent to me that there is a fundamental flaw in the thought process in any one of these options where we extend Hill, extend Jones, and pay Ford or a big name free agent. The issue is not that we can't "squeeze" them under the cap for 2019, it's what happens in 2020. The cap gets unbelievably tight. Here's an example of what I was thinking in a version 2.0 of this one without Bell from a signings perspective (note that I try to assume market values relative to current contracts and go from there)... Extensions Hill: 5 years/$95.0m contract extension with $65m in guarantees, $42m guaranteed at signing, and $20m signing bonus. Estimated Cap Hits 2019: 6.097 2020: 18.75 2021: 19.25 2022: 19.75 2023: 18.25 2024: 15.00 Jones: 5 years, $81.0m contract extension with $40.0m guaranteed at signing including $20.0m signing bonus. Estimated Cap Hits 2019: 5.98 2020: 13.00 2021: 15.00 2022: 16.00 2023: 17.00 2024: 16.00 Tags FS Jordan Lucas: RFA Original Round Tender estimated $2.02m OC Austin Reiter: RFA Original Round Tender estimated $2.02m (I'm just going to leave this in here until the details of his extension are released) DL Justin Hamilton: ERFA Tender estimated $570k + $30k bonus PK Harrison Butker: ERFA Tender estimated $570k + $30k bonus WR Markus Kemp: ERFA Tender estimated $570k + $30k bonus WR Gehrig Deiter: ERFA Tender estimated $570k + $30k bonus Signings OC Brett Jones (MIN): 2 years/$5.5m with $2.25m guaranteed and $1.0m signing bonus. Estimated Cap Hits 2019: 2.50 2020: 3.00 ED Markus Golden (ARZ): 2 years/$7.0m with $1.50m signing bonus. Estimated Cap Hits 2019: 2.40 2020: 4.60 TE Maxx Williams (BAL): 3 years/$9.0m with $1.5m signing bonus, and $1.0m roster bonuses in 2020 and 2021 if he's on the roster the 5th day of the new league year. Estimated Cap Hits 2019: 2.00 2020: 3.25 2021: 3.75 Re-Signings CB Steven Nelson: 4 years/$31.0m with $10.0m guaranteed at signing, and $6.0m signing bonus and another $6.0m guaranteed (salary) if on the roster the 5th day of the 2020 league year. Estimated Cap Hits 2019: 5.50 2020: 7.75 2021: 8.50 2022: 9.25 ED Dee Ford: 5 years/$86.00m with 41.00m guaranteed at signing including a 20.00m signing bonus. Estimated Cap Hits 2019: 13.00 2020: 16.00 2021: 17.00 2022: 20.00 2023 20.00 FB Anthony Sherman: 4 years/$8.4m with $5.0m guaranteed and $2.4m signing bonus. Estimated Cap Hits 2019: 1.90 2020: 2.00 2021: 2.20 2022: 2.30 RB Spencer Ware: 2 year/$3.0m with $500k roster bonuses in each year. Estimated Cap Hits: 2019: $1.40 2020: 1.60 Cuts SS Eric Berry: June 1 Designation Let Walk DE Allen Bailey, CB Orlando Scandrick, TE Demetrius Harris, FS Josh Shaw, RB Damien Williams, OC Mitch Morse, FS Ron Parker, WR De'Anthony Thomas, OLB Frank Zombo, CB Steven Nelson, ILB Terrence Smith, WR Chris Conley This put me at 5.72m in space for 2019 with the draft class signing... But only 1.93m in space for 2020. That's where I think a Houston extension with 2020 salary converted to a bonus similar to the deal Terrell Suggs got would be a win or the Chiefs would have to cut him. As well, they'd have to cut Sammy Watkins in all likelihood in order to give them cap to play with. Obviously I could not sign any street free agents and gain $10.8m for 2020. It's unlikely KC signs nobody. If I choose not to cut Berry, that space gets eaten up and then some. Basically, to keep Berry you're looking at no FAs and not re-signing Nelson if you want to keep Ford. So the question here is do you keep Ford or Berry or neither, assuming you want to keep Jones and Hill? You could choose not to extend Hill or Jones and then re-sign them in 2020 but you may not save money versus the extend now contract. I don't think you can go this offseason choosing to extend neither because you can't franchise them both.
Posts: 12,682

12-10-2018, 06:34 PM	#9
The Franchise Most Valuable Villain Join Date: Dec 2006 Casino cash: $2805047	Cut in 2019: Eric Berry (June 1st cut) Daniel Sorensen Reggie Ragland That gives you an extra $13.5 (roughly) million in cap space before any new deals. So around $53 million to work with. Cut in 2020: Sammy Watkins Justin Houston That gives you an extra $31.5 million in cap space to work with in 2020.
Posts: 92,298