Let's talk about the Patriots

[cmh6476]

too soon?

[stevegroganfan]

Judging pass rushes in a vacuum doesn't make sense. I am a child of the 80's and one of the best examples of why not to judge pass rushes in a vacuum is arguably the Bears vs the Dolphins in I believe 1985 on MNF. Bears had one of the most intimidating defenses/pass rushes of the 1980's. Teams usually did nothing against them during the year they only lost 1 game.

Miami with Marino had a QB that could get rid of the ball quickly and wide receivers who may not have had great size but they could get down the field quickly and were hard to cover. Bears weakness exposed and Miami pulls off the upset.

If KC can really cover well(Edelman, White, et cetera) in this game and are even reasonable at slowing down Patriots running game, Patriots in all likelihood lose the game.

[RobertWeathers]

Originally Posted by stevegroganfan

I will concede KC in all likelihood -- especially at home -- has the better pass rush but the Patriots pass rush looked pretty darn good last game. How much pressure the Patriots get is in part a coaching decision. I think BB/Flores will go after Mahomes more than some people suspect.

I would not be surprised if KC's sack rate has been helped by their high powered offense. If you get a lead, the other team has to throw more often and you kind of know you can pressure that team.

I don't know why hes arguing it. They have the talent, the crowd noise and play from ahead...of course their pass rush is better than ours. They have closers and we don't. Its a talent and a scheme issue

We don't draft the kind of players they have and play a completely different defensive system. Doesn't mean it's better or worse. Just different.

BB has never been about sacks. He puts a priority on edge and gap integrity....but he has been about pressure. He puts way more value in moving a QB off his spot in 1.4 seconds and redirecting his throwing lane 5 out of 10 times than a sack once out of 10 times in 2.5 seconds. It's just how he thinks.

I do think we have a decent pass rush and with Flowers, Guy, Butler and Clayborn (sometimes Wise, High and KVN on the edge) we can generate pressure with the front 4.

[RobertWeathers]

Originally Posted by Yehoodi

ha ha I do the same sometimes.

I do know it's not AndyJohnson.

[RaidersOftheCellar]

Mahomes played his worst half of the year in New England and still ended up dropping 40. He always learns from mistakes, so I highly doubt he's fooled again as he was by Hightower. The other mistakes were all self-inflicted. Forced the issue on the 2nd INT, and several wide open targets missed.

The weather is the only thing preventing the Chiefs from moving the ball Sunday, and I don't expect it to be much of a factor.

[bobbything]

Originally Posted by RobertWeathers

I do think we have a decent pass rush and with Flowers, Guy, Butler and Clayborn (sometimes Wise, High and KVN on the edge) we can generate pressure with the front 4.

You guys are an excellent team. It's going to take KC's "A" game to win on Sunday. NE, not as dominant as previous teams, but has a wealth of experience on their side. That accounts for so much.

For me, looking at all the metrics, this really comes down to a really odd (and wide) split: home defense vs. away defense. KC's is night/day. And NE's is night/day. I don't know why. KC's defense is just monumentally better at home and NE's is not very good on the road. Some of it is probably schedule-driven but, that said, it is what it is.

I think both offenses are going to move the ball. Brady will do what he does. There will be confusion and mismatches all over. If our pass rush can get to him, and force one or two mistakes (if even just bad throws), I like our chances. Mahomes, if flushed out, seems to thrive. If the pressure comes from one side, it could be trouble for NE. If it comes from the middle, it's trouble for KC.

Again, I keep pointing to the home/road splits and I think this is what makes the difference. If we were in NE, I'd think the same thing.

[RobertWeathers]

Originally Posted by bobbything

You guys are an excellent team. It's going to take KC's "A" game to win on Sunday. NE, not as dominant as previous teams, but has a wealth of experience on their side. That accounts for so much.

For me, looking at all the metrics, this really comes down to a really odd (and wide) split: home defense vs. away defense. KC's is night/day. And NE's is night/day. I don't know why. KC's defense is just monumentally better at home and NE's is not very good on the road. Some of it is probably schedule-driven but, that said, it is what it is.

I think both offenses are going to move the ball. Brady will do what he does. There will be confusion and mismatches all over. If our pass rush can get to him, and force one or two mistakes (if even just bad throws), I like our chances. Mahomes, if flushed out, seems to thrive. If the pressure comes from one side, it could be trouble for NE. If it comes from the middle, it's trouble for KC.

Again, I keep pointing to the home/road splits and I think this is what makes the difference. If we were in NE, I'd think the same thing.

I have no complete answer for the road woes this year. It's been bizarre and completely out of character. I do try to put each game into some kind of contextual reference. Bottom line this team has not brought the same level of intensity to road games vs those at home as it had in past years. They've taken their foot off the gas way too many times this year. If they do it again in Arrowhead we will lose. It's a fact.

So if I was going to look at each road loss, this is what I would say around it.

JAX- It was their Super Bowl and we walked in there like we owned the place. It was still early in the year and we weren't a very good football team. JAX were ready. We weren't.

DET- Matt Patricia, fmr DC knew us. Same as JAX. No receivers. No intensity.

PITT- I thought the D played well. We sacrificed putting pressure on Roeth vs defending the run. Tom's bad MCL was a factor. Tough loss.

TEN- Lots of emotion in that one. Tom w/ the MCL but another one where we didn't match the intensity of their HC who knew our offense (Vrable, Patricia).

MIA- Miami is part of the Bermuda Triangle. We never play well there. We are like 1-6 in our last 7 there. Its their Super Bowl and we gave up. What a horrific loss. Tom re-injured his MCL in the 2nd 1/2 but thats not an excuse. Pats weren't ready to play.

Even vs CHI we were curb-stomping them we let them back in the game. That goes back to intensity and focus. Part of it is also way-too conservative defensive playcalling like the 2nd 1/2 vs you guys Week 6 but thats besides the point.

So net-net, its not a talent issue. It's a focus and emotional intensity issue. We have it at home but not on the road.

I expect this defense to have it in KC but I have no idea it'll be enough.

[TheNoob]

At this point you are either right or you eat crow sunday. But sunday can't come fast enough tbh so you can crawl back into the hole you came from

Originally Posted by WhamBlock

The Chiefs have significantly more sacks. 52. We played another team with 52 sacks on the road this season and they only had 2 sacks that game, and another team with 50 sacks at home, who had 2 sacks against us.

Sorry but if you are hoping for some inordinate amount of sacks against this Sunday, you're going to be disappointed. You better hope that your guys can actually cover, which they haven't shown that they can do for the vast majority of the season.

[WhamBlock]

Originally Posted by bobbything

You guys are an excellent team. It's going to take KC's "A" game to win on Sunday. NE, not as dominant as previous teams, but has a wealth of experience on their side. That accounts for so much.

For me, looking at all the metrics, this really comes down to a really odd (and wide) split: home defense vs. away defense. KC's is night/day. And NE's is night/day. I don't know why. KC's defense is just monumentally better at home and NE's is not very good on the road. Some of it is probably schedule-driven but, that said, it is what it is.

I think both offenses are going to move the ball. Brady will do what he does. There will be confusion and mismatches all over. If our pass rush can get to him, and force one or two mistakes (if even just bad throws), I like our chances. Mahomes, if flushed out, seems to thrive. If the pressure comes from one side, it could be trouble for NE. If it comes from the middle, it's trouble for KC.

Again, I keep pointing to the home/road splits and I think this is what makes the difference. If we were in NE, I'd think the same thing.

This is the most baffling part about all of this. Chiefs fans spend little to no time talking about scheme or personnel matchups, and instead they spend the entire time talking about NE's road performance this season. It's as if their hope depends entirely on the Patriots sucking and coming into this game as if it were some random regular season game in JAX or Tennessee.

If you believe that the GOAT coach, the GOAT QB, a team full of Super Bowl champions with a ton of playoff experience who is now healthy and clearly motivated and fired up about everyone thinking they suck, will come into Arrowhead and lay an egg in their biggest game of the season, you'll be disappointed.

[ThanksForTheLoan]

Originally Posted by WhamBlock

This is the most baffling part about all of this. Chiefs fans spend little to no time talking about scheme or personnel matchups, and instead they spend the entire time talking about NE's road performance this season. It's as if their hope depends entirely on the Patriots sucking and coming into this game as if it were some random regular season game in JAX or Tennessee.

If you believe that the GOAT coach, the GOAT QB, a team full of Super Bowl champions with a ton of playoff experience who is clearly motivated and fired up about everyone thinking they suck, will come into Arrowhead and lay an egg in their biggest game of the season, you'll be disappointed.

Exactly.

I can't believe Chiefs fans wild over-confidence on here. You think they were playing the Texans or something.

Very strange.

Also, the typical "cheating" excuse/lie towards the beginning of this thread, is what we always saw from Indy and other loser fanbases who had fear. It seems to always be a pre-emptive excuse strike in case they lose.

Some teams execute framejobs against the Pats (Jets and Colts), and I don't expect that here from KC at all, but they best hope the players on KC aren't coming in with such an attitude.

[Chief_N_Bama]

Originally Posted by WhamBlock

This is the most baffling part about all of this. Chiefs fans spend little to no time talking about scheme or personnel matchups, and instead they spend the entire time talking about NE's road performance this season. It's as if their hope depends entirely on the Patriots sucking and coming into this game as if it were some random regular season game in JAX or Tennessee.

If you believe that the GOAT coach, the GOAT QB, a team full of Super Bowl champions with a ton of playoff experience who is now healthy and clearly motivated and fired up about everyone thinking they suck, will come into Arrowhead and lay an egg in their biggest game of the season, you'll be disappointed.

Lol... you're an idiot...

I've spent the last few pages arguing with your dumbass about whether or not KC's pass rush is good and will have any impact on this game. And no one has argued that NE is going to lay an egg. Just that KC will likely score more points than NE.

[RobertWeathers]

Originally Posted by ThanksForTheLoan

Exactly.

I can't believe Chiefs fans wild over-confidence on here. You think they were playing the Texans or something.

Very strange.

Also, the typical "cheating" excuse/lie towards the beginning of this thread, is what we always saw from Indy and other loser fanbases who had fear. It seems to always be a pre-emptive excuse strike in case they lose.

Some teams execute framejobs against the Pats (Jets and Colts), and I don't expect that here from KC at all, but they best hope the players on KC aren't coming in with such an attitude.

Who cares. We are on their board.

We will always be called cheaters and I've spent way too much time offering facts and logic attempting to change people's perceptions. It's a waste of time.

All we need to do is take care of business and win....like we have done for the last 18 years.

[SupDock]

Originally Posted by ThanksForTheLoan

Exactly.

I can't believe Chiefs fans wild over-confidence on here. You think they were playing the Texans or something.

Very strange.

Also, the typical "cheating" excuse/lie towards the beginning of this thread, is what we always saw from Indy and other loser fanbases who had fear. It seems to always be a pre-emptive excuse strike in case they lose.

Some teams execute framejobs against the Pats (Jets and Colts), and I don't expect that here from KC at all, but they best hope the players on KC aren't coming in with such an attitude.

You are surprised that Chiefs fans are confident on their own message board? I bet you don't see that in any other team, even your own, right?

as for us talking about schemes and personnel, who the f*** cares what we talked about. It's not like we have any influence over the game, the exception being some influence with crowd noise

[ThanksForTheLoan]

Originally Posted by RobertWeathers

I have no complete answer for the road woes this year. It's been bizarre and completely out of character. I do try to put each game into some kind of contextual reference. Bottom line this team has not brought the same level of intensity to road games vs those at home as it had in past years. They've taken their foot off the gas way too many times this year. If they do it again in Arrowhead we will lose. It's a fact.

So if I was going to look at each road loss, this is what I would say around it.

JAX- It was their Super Bowl and we walked in there like we owned the place. It was still early in the year and we weren't a very good football team. JAX were ready. We weren't.

DET- Matt Patricia, fmr DC knew us. Same as JAX. No receivers. No intensity.

PITT- I thought the D played well. We sacrificed putting pressure on Roeth vs defending the run. Tom's bad MCL was a factor. Tough loss.

TEN- Lots of emotion in that one. Tom w/ the MCL but another one where we didn't match the intensity of their HC who knew our offense (Vrable, Patricia).

MIA- Miami is part of the Bermuda Triangle. We never play well there. We are like 1-6 in our last 7 there. Its their Super Bowl and we gave up. What a horrific loss. Tom re-injured his MCL in the 2nd 1/2 but thats not an excuse. Pats weren't ready to play.

Even vs CHI we were curb-stomping them we let them back in the game. That goes back to intensity and focus. Part of it is also way-too conservative defensive playcalling like the 2nd 1/2 vs you guys Week 6 but thats besides the point.

So net-net, its not a talent issue. It's a focus and emotional intensity issue. We have it at home but not on the road.

I expect this defense to have it in KC but I have no idea it'll be enough.

I think the discombobulation, the shifting to more runnig with Michel, no Edleman, a fading Gronk, etc, and Brady needing to WAKE UP and realize he needs to use a power run game MORE now, are all contributors.

I had the Jax game as a loss. The Detroit game no one saw coming, but again, that was a SB for them, they brought more energy, NE didn't, and that's how you lose.

Tenn I have no explanation.

Miami was a fluke play and that's on them for letting it happen.

Pitt was desperate, but I still don't believe Brady was willing to finally accept this team needs to run more and can, delving up carries in between the Tackles more with Gronk blocking more..

I literally said about a month ago that Gronk needs to not really get targets anynore, so since this shift took all year to happen, I think BB had to do some beind the scenes convincing and a sell job on both Brady and Gronk, that this is now more so the way.

Let's be honest: Brady and Gronk skipping OTAs was a nozzle move. I am as diehard as they come, but I will not lie about Brady's primadonna, passive aggressive antics this offseason on the heels of a Facebook Doc and a cookbook while acting like a baby because Guerrero can't rub him down before a road game.

I mean, seriously. Who kidnapped Tom- Brady? I'll tell you who...Giselle.

So, I think BB has spent all year managing some egos, but what I've seen since the Pitt loss is a realization, this style of offense is how it needs to be.

These are just my opinions, because there is no way with this kind of talent on offense, with 1st and 2nd rd picks everywhere, could be that bad.

Brady was throwing at a 40% compl. clip in the red zone. That's horrendous.

But, I am now I am sold that Gronk and BRady are all in since the Buffalo and Jets games, and certainly after last week. It's on.

The run game and the Pony Package are lethal and this is not your daddy's Post-Lockout Pats. This isn't finesse with 50 passes a game and 80% of those out of the shotgun. Nope.

And there is no permanent slot WR either. There is no Welker or Amendola.

This is 2004 and no one should have a clue where the ball is going. And, you know what? It still might go to Gronk in single man at some point up the seam or in the red zone.

[ThanksForTheLoan]

Originally Posted by SupDock

You are surprised that Chiefs fans are confident on their own message board? I bet you don't see that in any other team, even your own, right?

as for us talking about schemes and personnel, who the f*** cares what we talked about. It's not like we have any influence over the game, the exception being some influence with crowd noise

No, I am surprised that Chiefs fans are completely disrespecting the Pats and taking cues from the Patriot-hating media that makes things up and just regurgitates lies as wishful thinking, hoping NE just disappears because of it.

I mean, we all know you were rooting for SD last week, and we know why.

SO, it doesn't make sense to act like you have this game in the bag.

I like the Chiefs. I always have. I appreciate Hunt loaning Sullivan money last minute to help our franchise become a franchise in 1960.

And, I think your fans are good and have deserved better through the years, and I know how exciting that feeling is for the first home AFC Title game. I was at ours in 1996 and it is probably my favorite sports memory, including a gazillion Sox and B's games growing up as a kid.

My reaction would be this:

We have to play the Pats with no turnovers and hope home field can the be the difference.

It wouldn't be 90% of what I read on this board. It's just confusing. This ain't the Colts, the Texans, or whatever half baked franchise coming in there.

[stevegroganfan]

Originally Posted by RaidersOftheCellar

Mahomes played his worst half of the year in New England and still ended up dropping 40. He always learns from mistakes, so I highly doubt he's fooled again as he was by Hightower. The other mistakes were all self-inflicted. Forced the issue on the 2nd INT, and several wide open targets missed.

The weather is the only thing preventing the Chiefs from moving the ball Sunday, and I don't expect it to be much of a factor.

KC will obviously put up some points and make its fair share of big plays. A Patriots fan arguing otherwise I think is delusional. Question is whether those drives end up in field goal attempts or touchdowns.

But Mahomes dropping 40 points in that game is misleading. 7 points setup by special teams --KC offense only had to go 3 yards -- and short field from Brady fumble in which Brady had 4-5 seconds to throw but KC defensive backs did a good enough job to prevent him from pulling the trigger.

Mahomes can obviously do it but he is going to have to play significantly better than he did against the Patriots in the game throwing the ball/making decisions considering even if Hill has a big game on offense, I do suspect the Patriots will deal with him better in after the catch scenarios.

Either Brady or Mahomes can be fooled in this game. Mahomes more likely to be the player fooled but all QB's are fooled from time to time.