****Official 2017 NBA Playoffs Thread****

[KC_Connection]

The real season begins.

Round 1:

EAST:

#8 Bulls @ #1 Celtics
#7 Pacers @ #2 Cavs
#6 Bucks @ #3 Raptors
#5 Hawks @ #4 Wizards

WEST:
#8 Blazers @ #1 Warriors
#7 Grizzlies @ #2 Spurs
#6 Thunder @ #3 Rockets
#5 Jazz @ #4 Clippers

[Spott]

Originally Posted by Pitt Gorilla

LeBron did NOT start the "superteam crap." It's been around for forever. Look at the 80's Lakers and the 90's Bulls.

The Bulls just drafted good and ended up with a super team. The only player that they acquired was Rodman, and that was only because Horace Grant left the Bulls to play with Penny and Shaq.

[O.city]

Originally Posted by PAChiefsGuy

When did MJ leave the Bulls to play with other superstars? When did Magic? When did Bird?

LeBron is a superstar who LEFT the team that drafted him to start a superteam... Durant simply followed his ways.

Those guys didn't have to leave though, they had stars put around them. It's a different league now though so it's a weird and tough comparison. Those days, guys didn't really leave.

In the end, the concept we all seem to miss is that you can't win a championship without multiple stars, superstars, elite players whatever acronym we wanna give them.

Doesn't matter if it's magic, kareem, bird, kobe, jordan etc. Everyone needs guys around them.

[vailpass]

Originally Posted by PAChiefsGuy

When did MJ leave the Bulls to play with other superstars? When did Magic? When did Bird?

LeBron is a superstar who LEFT the team that drafted him to start a superteam... Durant simply followed his ways.

The Celtics did some seriously good drafting to build that team.
They drafted Bird when he was a junior in college knowing he wouldn't play for them until the next year.
Then, in the draft following Bird's rookie year Auerbach traded the number one overall pick to Golden State for Robert Parrish and their first round pick which they used on Kevin McHale.

[PAChiefsGuy]

Originally Posted by O.city

Those guys didn't have to leave though, they had stars put around them. It's a different league now though so it's a weird and tough comparison. Those days, guys didn't really leave.

In the end, the concept we all seem to miss is that you can't win a championship without multiple stars, superstars, elite players whatever acronym we wanna give them.

Doesn't matter if it's magic, kareem, bird, kobe, jordan etc. Everyone needs guys around them.

And the concept you are missing is that LeBron and Durant weren't far off from winning where they were and they had help.

LeBron was constantly making the finals, Durant had Westbrook, they both took the easy way out.

[Pitt Gorilla]

Originally Posted by BigCatDaddy

Those teams were all built from the draft for the most part. They didn't have three superstars get together and choose a team. Big difference

Prior to 1988, free agency didn't really exist. I didn't realize that was a defining element of a "superteam."

[Pitt Gorilla]

Originally Posted by PAChiefsGuy

And the concept you are missing is that LeBron and Durant weren't far off from winning where they were and they had help.

LeBron was constantly making the finals, Durant had Westbrook, they both took the easy way out.

Presti appeared to be hell bent on destroying that OKC team. If the only other piece you had was Westbrook, you'd bolt as well.

[Sannyasi]

In two years Lebron will be playing with Lonzo Ball in LA.

[tk13]

Originally Posted by Pitt Gorilla

Prior to 1988, free agency didn't really exist. I didn't realize that was a defining element of a "superteam."

This is intellectual dishonesty. You know the argument people are making here. Generally most sports fans will let it slide if you draft, trade for and develop a team that ends up playing at a high level.

When established players team up outside the bounds of that framework, fans usually consider it taking the easy way out. Doesn't matter if it's football, basketball, baseball, whatever. Now should fans be upset about that? Certainly fair to make that argument if you're so inclined... but you can't come in here and act naive to it. Fans want competition, not a bunch of stars teaming up to form super teams. At the end of the day it's entertainment. Some sports fans just don't find this entertaining.

[PAChiefsGuy]

Originally Posted by Pitt Gorilla

Presti appeared to be hell bent on destroying that OKC team. If the only other piece you had was Westbrook, you'd bolt as well.

How do you know what I'd do? You don't know anything about me.

Everyone is different. I'd probably stay but I know for damn sure I wouldn't go to GS. I'd want to beat the best not join them but that's just me.

[KC_Connection]

LeBron had total scrubs in Cleveland and a declining Wade/Bosh in Miami when he left both teams. Neither team was going to be winning a championship had he stayed in those places.

Durant, on the other hand, had one of the best players in the NBA in his prime to play with and had proven in the WCF that his team was more than good enough to win a title. He left for the team he lost to anyway.

[ChiefsCountry]

Originally Posted by KC_Connection

LeBron had total scrubs in Cleveland and a declining Wade/Bosh in Miami when he left both teams. Neither team was going to be winning a championship had he stayed in those places.

I think in Miami, Riley could have rebuilt that franchise with LeBron. Trouble was Riley and LeBron's E and Turtle didn't get along.

[PAChiefsGuy]

Originally Posted by KC_Connection

LeBron had total scrubs in Cleveland and a declining Wade/Bosh in Miami when he left both teams. Neither team was going to be winning a championship had he stayed in those places.

Durant, on the other hand, had one of the best players in the NBA in his prime to play with and had proven in the WCF that his team was more than good enough to win a title. He left for the team he lost to anyway.

I agree Durant leaving the way he did was much worse than what LeBron but I don't see how you can say LeBron never would have won a championship staying in Cleveland. We'll never know for sure. They were making the finals pretty regularly and I've got to believe eventually he would have been able to recruit some help via FA.

But yeah I don't fault LeBron as much as I do Durant. Durant's move was cowardly IMO.

[chiefzilla1501]

Originally Posted by PAChiefsGuy

I agree Durant leaving the way he did was much worse than what LeBron but I don't see how you can say LeBron never would have won a championship staying in Cleveland. We'll never know for sure. They were making the finals pretty regularly and I've got to believe eventually he would have been able to recruit some help via FA.

But yeah I don't fault LeBron as much as I do Durant. Durant's move was cowardly IMO.

Thing about lebrons first run with Cleveland is they couldn't recruit in his later years. Because free agents weren't sure if lebron was committed. So they pulled a bunch of useless scrubs like Shaq, Ben Wallace in the later years.

I also have said this many times... It was a few games into the heats second final where he developed something he hadn't had before. Maturity. The heat showboating in the Dallas series only to lose was a wakeup call and a turning point in lebrons career.

[chiefzilla1501]

I'll say it again... If Blatt weren't fired and the team could have put up with him, the Cavs would be competing right now. The Cavs wore out the Warriors the last two years. Frustrated the shit out of them. Now it's the opposite. The Cavs end each game, not just this series, like they're out of gas. I hate what the team became.

[New World Order]

Originally Posted by KC_Connection

LeBron had total scrubs in Cleveland and a declining Wade/Bosh in Miami when he left both teams. Neither team was going to be winning a championship had he stayed in those places.

Durant, on the other hand, had one of the best players in the NBA in his prime to play with and had proven in the WCF that his team was more than good enough to win a title. He left for the team he lost to anyway.

In what way was Wade declining? He was more efficient than he had been his entire career. His numbers dropped (and so did Bosh's) due to them playing with 2 other all-stars.

Hell, he almost averaged 10 more points than Lebron in the 11 Finals.