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Old 09-19-2014, 09:52 AM  
OldSchool OldSchool is offline
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Let's talk WRs

Who's your top ranked receiver right now?

For me, the most pro-ready and best all around prospect at WR is Amari Cooper. He would come in and immediately start across from Bowe and eventually replace him as the primary WR.

What's wrong with Sammy Coates?

The guy has all of the tools in the world, I would equate him to Vernon Davis but at the WR position, but he hasn't produced much at all this season. Coates isn't even close to being his team's leading receiver so I'm not going to blame it on the scheme. Physically, Coates looks like a top 10 pick but his production is that of a mid to late rounder. Where would you take him?

Any thoughts on Coates' teammate, D'haquille Williams?

There is a massive difference in production between he and Sammy Coates so far this year; yes, this could be entirely due to Coates being injured from the Arkansas game but Coates only caught one pass in that game and dropped a possible TD pass despite playing 52 snaps against the Razorbacks. Williams is a JUCO transfer with good size, speed, and explosiveness, though not on the same level as Coates as far as pure physical ability goes. Is he a potential #1 WR or just a 2 at best?

Does DGB declare? If so, do you even dare to touch him given his off-field issues?

Despite not playing this season, I think that there is a real possibility that DGB does declare for the 2015 NFL draft; he just doesn't seem like the type of person who would be willing to go through another year of college over getting paid as a pro athlete. If he does declare, what round would you be willing to take a risk on him? The guy has had problems with at least two key NFL issues, abuse of women and weed. DGB has top 5 talent but an off-field reputation that would have him banned from the league if he had committed those acts as a Pro.

Do Jaelen Strong, Kevin White, or Devante Parker have enough speed to be potential #1 WRs? If not, are their other gifts good enough for them to be close to what Larry Fitzgerald has been in the league?

Is Stefon Diggs actually that fast? When I watch him, I don't see the same dimension of speed that guys like Jackson, Wallace, etc have. I'll be very curious to see what he actually runs at the Combine.

Who are you guys keeping your eyes on this year at the WR position?
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Old 12-01-2014, 11:09 PM   #106
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WRs usually take a while to develop, and their learning curve is steep because Reid runs a very large and complicated playbook.

If the chiefs want to maximize the chances that a rookie can contribute immediately, than they should get one that is already experienced in the west coast offense:

2011-present University of Louisville - Offense coordinated by Shawn Watson
2013-present San Diego State University - Offense coordinated by Bob Toledo
2014-present Vanderbilt - Offense coordinated by Karl Dorrell
2014-present Wyoming -Offense coordinated by Brent Vigen
2008-present Baylor University -offense coordinated by Art Briles

With that in mind, than these receivers start to make a lot of sense:
Davante Parker 6-2, 210 4.48 Louisville
Antwan Goodley 5-10, 225 4.50 Baylor
Levi Norwood 6-0, 195 4.55 Baylor
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Old 12-02-2014, 02:23 AM   #107
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Originally Posted by planetdoc View Post
WRs usually take a while to develop, and their learning curve is steep because Reid runs a very large and complicated playbook.

If the chiefs want to maximize the chances that a rookie can contribute immediately, than they should get one that is already experienced in the west coast offense:

2011-present University of Louisville - Offense coordinated by Shawn Watson
2013-present San Diego State University - Offense coordinated by Bob Toledo
2014-present Vanderbilt - Offense coordinated by Karl Dorrell
2014-present Wyoming -Offense coordinated by Brent Vigen
2008-present Baylor University -offense coordinated by Art Briles

With that in mind, than these receivers start to make a lot of sense:
Davante Parker 6-2, 210 4.48 Louisville
Antwan Goodley 5-10, 225 4.50 Baylor
Levi Norwood 6-0, 195 4.55 Baylor
I believe Baylor doesn't run a west coast offense0-they run a spread offense
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Old 12-02-2014, 02:55 AM   #108
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Originally Posted by planetdoc View Post
WRs usually take a while to develop, and their learning curve is steep because Reid runs a very large and complicated playbook.

If the chiefs want to maximize the chances that a rookie can contribute immediately, than they should get one that is already experienced in the west coast offense:

2011-present University of Louisville - Offense coordinated by Shawn Watson
2013-present San Diego State University - Offense coordinated by Bob Toledo
2014-present Vanderbilt - Offense coordinated by Karl Dorrell
2014-present Wyoming -Offense coordinated by Brent Vigen
2008-present Baylor University -offense coordinated by Art Briles

With that in mind, than these receivers start to make a lot of sense:
Davante Parker 6-2, 210 4.48 Louisville
Antwan Goodley 5-10, 225 4.50 Baylor
Levi Norwood 6-0, 195 4.55 Baylor
Sammy Watkins - 51 catches, 695 yards, 5 touchdowns
Mike Evans - 53 catches, 890 yards, 8 touchdowns
Odell Beckham Jr. - 48 catches, 699 yards, 5 touchdowns
Brandin Cooks - 53 catches, 550 yards, 3 touchdowns
Kelvin Benjamin - 57 catches, 824 yards, 8 touchdowns
Jordan Matthews - 54 catches, 686 yards, 7 touchdowns
Davante Adams - 34 catches, 417 yards, 3 touchdowns
Allen Robinson - 48 catches, 548 yards, 2 touchdowns
Jarvis Landry - 57 catches, 518 yards, 5 touchdowns
John Brown - 39 catches, 569 yards, 5 touchdowns


compared to:

Dwayne Bowe - 46 receptions, 569 yards, 0 touchdowns

When there are 10 or so rookies who are outproducing or at least on par with our top 5 paid veteran wide receiver (Dwayne Bowe), it kind of goes against the argument that it takes a while for wide receivers to develop.

One of those guys sure would have looked nice on this team...

By the way, if this team doesn't kick Dwayne Bowe to the curb this offseason then they are fools.
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Old 12-02-2014, 10:34 AM   #109
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I want Antwan Goodley and I want him bad.

5'11, 220 lbs, 4.41 recorded 40 time.

Runs nice routes, easily strong enough to beat press and can get the YAC. This guy reminds me a lot of Greg Jennings.

He's got the strength of a Dwayne Bowe and the speed/burst to make things happen. I would almost be inclined to take him round 1. I can definitely see him moving up after he blows up the combine.
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Old 12-02-2014, 11:06 AM   #110
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Goodley's athleticism and strength is insane.

660 squat
415 lb bench press: he'll get around 25-28 of 225 bar at the combine
Just saw he recorded a 4.39 electronic 40 (we'll go with his 4.41 tho)
10'9" broad jump
39 inch vertical

Those numbers alone are among the best in last years deep class. Based on Dorsey's penchant for athleticism and production, this guy should be high on our board.
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Old 12-02-2014, 06:38 PM   #111
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Originally Posted by smith11 View Post
I believe Baylor doesn't run a west coast offense0-they run a spread offense
The Art of offense
Has Baylor birthed college football's most unstoppable system?

Quote:
And it's not the air raid. It's not the run ‘n' shoot. It's not just a spread offense.... Baylor's hybrid offensive approach essentially combines many of the greatest tactics in offensive football into one cohesive and simple package.
Baylor incorporates elements of the west coast offense.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1...r-raid-offense
Quote:
LaVell Edwards was a known piece of source material for Mumme and Leach as they put together their offense. Edwards coached at Brigham Young for decades as both an assistant and head coach. His coaching tree includes NFL men like former Green Bay Packers and Seattle Seahawks head coach Mike Holmgren, former Oakland Raiders offensive coordinator Ted Tollner, former Baltimore Ravens head coach Brian Billick, Kansas City Chiefs head coach Andy Reid and more.

Because of Edwards' intricate connection to the NFL and the Air Raid's close relationship to the West Coast passing attack that many of his proteges helped evolve, it's no surprise that NFL teams have been well indoctrinated in the concepts that Leach, Mumme and others have been preaching.

First, the West Coast offense, which in its infancy helped develop many of the ideas in the Air Raid, is a pretty easy melding point for the Air Raid in the pros. That leaves the horizontal passing concepts for the West Coast scheme and the Air Raid.

Again, it's not a perfect way of talking about it, but it gets us part of the way there. One of the core route concepts in the Air Raid is the shallow cross and its brother, the mesh route. In the shallow cross, the receiver (often an inside receiver) cuts immediately toward the middle of the field, right behind the defensive linemen. He catches the ball a yard or two past the line of scrimmage and is tasked with getting yards after the catch.

In the West Coast passing attack, the slant does roughly the same thing, but it is more of a timing route at three to five yards out rather than a crossing route which takes advantage of freeing oneself in the middle-of-the-field traffic.

The mesh route helps create that traffic by running two shallow crosses at one another. You'll hear commentators refer to this as a "pick play" or a "rub route."

Again, this is speaking in absolutes, and offensive philosophy doesn't really work like this, but a "rub route" or running into traffic is the antithesis of the purest forms of the West Coast attack. The West Coast sets up routes to draw traffic away from receivers.
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Originally Posted by kcchiefsus View Post

When there are 10 or so rookies who are outproducing or at least on par with our top 5 paid veteran wide receiver (Dwayne Bowe), it kind of goes against the argument that it takes a while for wide receivers to develop.
1. one year is a small sample size. historically, receivers take awhile to develop. The 2014 draft could be an outlier or the start of a trend due to the incorporation of spread concepts in the NFL or because wrs are becoming better developed in college.

2. Thirty three wrs were selected in the 2014 draft. If you include UDFA rookie wr who made an nfl roster the number in the nfl would be even larger. This means, at most, 30% are having success as rookies. If the chiefs are banking their hopes on rookies, than they need to maximize the chances of success, and the best way would be to target receivers who are familiar with the west coast offense.

The below quotes discuss how complicated Reid's playbook is:

Holy Gruden! Learning Andy Reid’s play calls is tall order for Chiefs QBs
Quote:
During his first position meeting with the Chiefs, rookie quarterback Aaron Murray remembers hearing his new teammates recite a long, random mishmash of words that sounded to him like plays, but almost couldn’t be because of their impossible length.

“They’re all talking about plays and it sounded like (a foreign language),” Murray remembers now with a chuckle. “I mean, they’re speaking and they’re calling these plays and I’m like, ‘I think they’re like messing with me right now, trying to scare me.’”

Nope. Murray would soon learn that the 15-word plays his teammates were casually discussing were actual components of coach Andy Reid’s West Coast playbook, which sometimes features verbiage complicated enough to temporarily stun even a 10-year veteran like starting quarterback Alex Smith.

“There’s times I’m in the huddle and I might go, ‘Alright, listen up for the call here fellas,’ and they know it’s gonna be a doozy,” Smith said. “We’ve got ‘shift to halfback twin right open, swap 72 all-go special halfback shallow cross wide open.’”

“The terminology isn’t the same across the league, but the length of the terminology, the huddle calls, (are),” Pederson said. “Teams are calling two and three plays in the huddle, so there’s more time spent communicating in the huddle because the quarterback is giving maybe two or three sets of instructions to the team.”

“Oh yeah, I’ve had a few of those,” Murray said, shaking his head. “This one time … I pretty had to tell every single receiver exactly what to do, but I couldn’t picture it in my head. I was trying to memorize what Coach Pederson was saying in my helmet and I was lost.

“In college now, you’re seeing so much of the spread and hurry-up stuff where they’re just using the one-word, two-word plays,” Pederson said.
http://www.kansas.com/sports/nfl/kan...le3874420.html
Quote:
Kelce, however, still has room to grow as a player. Reid’s playbook is complicated, and he sees himself (correctly) as a hybrid player, meaning he lines up all over the field. The Chiefs like to use him split out wide, attached to the line, as a h-back and as a slot receiver, and the responsibilities for each differ, depending on the play.

“The variety of things you could possibly do in this offense isn’t really like every single offense out there,” Kelce said.

In other words, it’s not as simple as listening to Reid’s complicated playcalls, hearing his route assignment and executing.

“I wish it was,” Kelce said with a laugh. “But it’s really not.”

There are times when the Chiefs call two plays in the huddle and kill one at the line of scrimmage. Kelce has to know the mid-play adjustments for each, depending on the type of defense the opponent is playing.
http://www.independentmail.com/sport...hiefs_90555243
Quote:
Aside from climbing the depth chart, his biggest challenge has been coach Andy Reid's playbook.

The KC boss is known for complicated and cumbersome terminology.

"It's pretty tough," Murray said. "The verbiage is the toughest part. I've gotten better but I have to keep working every day. You have the 40 seconds and there's not a lot of time after you get the play from the coach, get in the huddle and say everything and mentally figure out what you're doing.

"Some of the plays are really long."
http://www.ibtimes.com/nfl-playbook-...t-work-1677470
Quote:
Though the West Coast offense can be complicated, the basic tenets of the scheme involve a quarterback using quick short passes within 15 or 20 yards from the line of scrimmage for a higher completion rate. In theory, it also allows a receiver, running back, or tight end to come up with big chunks of yards after the catch, and sucks in a defense before unleashing a deeper play down field.
http://arrowheadaddict.com/2014/07/2...-running-back/
Quote:
Let’s start by recognizing Andy Reid’s playbook is not one that is easy to digest. It is complicated, with a lot of new terms and concepts for players to learn. We saw this a bit last season when it took nearly half a season before the Chiefs could finally start getting into rhythm on offense. Expecting Thomas to immediately pickup McCluster’s full role in the offense would have been difficult, especially for a rookie.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Run Kc View Post
I want Antwan Goodley and I want him bad.

5'11, 220 lbs, 4.41 recorded 40 time.

Runs nice routes, easily strong enough to beat press and can get the YAC. This guy reminds me a lot of Greg Jennings.

He's got the strength of a Dwayne Bowe and the speed/burst to make things happen. I would almost be inclined to take him round 1. I can definitely see him moving up after he blows up the combine.
he would be an excellent fit for the chiefs offense. He may be available later in the draft due to decreased production this year (due to injury).
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Old 12-04-2014, 12:42 PM   #112
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http://mattwaldmanrsp.com

this site is awesome. i love these guys. they made an hour long video breaking down devante parkers game, as well as devante davis, and the little things parker needs to work on. they actually think hed be a poor choice in a wco, and specifically mentioned kc.
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Old 12-04-2014, 10:05 PM   #113
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Originally Posted by jonzie04 View Post
http://mattwaldmanrsp.com

this site is awesome. i love these guys. they made an hour long video breaking down devante parkers game, as well as devante davis, and the little things parker needs to work on. they actually think hed be a poor choice in a wco, and specifically mentioned kc.
I've already stated that I don't think he'd be as good in this system as his talent on the college level suggests.

He doesn't come off the line quickly (more of a strider once he hits 10 yards or so) and isn't really crisp on his breaks.

I believe I've already stated it somewhere else, but he reminds me a ton of former Boise State wide receiver Austin Pettis.
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Old 12-04-2014, 11:17 PM   #114
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I've already stated that I don't think he'd be as good in this system as his talent on the college level suggests.

He doesn't come off the line quickly (more of a strider once he hits 10 yards or so) and isn't really crisp on his breaks.

I believe I've already stated it somewhere else, but he reminds me a ton of former Boise State wide receiver Austin Pettis.
those were both points they hit on. they didnt like his short choppy steps he takes getting of the LOS. they think he does a poor job at selling going deep on short and intermediate routes by breaking down too early, and slowing down before his breaks. they also compared him to marquise lee in that he is never the aggressor while running routes, and always lets the db make first contact. they dont believe he is afraid of contact like lee though, because he will lower his head as a ball carrier.
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Old 12-05-2014, 11:14 AM   #115
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Sammy Watkins - 51 catches, 695 yards, 5 touchdowns
Mike Evans - 53 catches, 890 yards, 8 touchdowns
Odell Beckham Jr. - 48 catches, 699 yards, 5 touchdowns
Brandin Cooks - 53 catches, 550 yards, 3 touchdowns
Kelvin Benjamin - 57 catches, 824 yards, 8 touchdowns
Jordan Matthews - 54 catches, 686 yards, 7 touchdowns
Davante Adams - 34 catches, 417 yards, 3 touchdowns
Allen Robinson - 48 catches, 548 yards, 2 touchdowns
Jarvis Landry - 57 catches, 518 yards, 5 touchdowns
John Brown - 39 catches, 569 yards, 5 touchdowns


compared to:

Dwayne Bowe - 46 receptions, 569 yards, 0 touchdowns

When there are 10 or so rookies who are outproducing or at least on par with our top 5 paid veteran wide receiver (Dwayne Bowe), it kind of goes against the argument that it takes a while for wide receivers to develop.

One of those guys sure would have looked nice on this team...

By the way, if this team doesn't kick Dwayne Bowe to the curb this offseason then they are fools.
Every team runs the same offense with the same QB.
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Old 12-08-2014, 10:24 PM   #116
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I havent spent the time watching prospects yet, as I find it to be easier when the season's done, then I check out the guys as they are ranked.

As a K-State fan, Im a super homer for Tyler Lockett. How does he project at the next level? If I try set my bias aside, I can understand that he's smaller than many of the elite WR's in the league, and while he does seem to be dinged up often, he pushes through and gets back on the field. I'm not sure he'll be able to do that with an NFL schedule and NFL sized hits from NFL sized players.

However, he is an ELITE route runner, and has shown the ability to make the amazing catch seemingly once or twice per game. Rarely does he drop a ball, but the most memorable was in the big Auburn game this year.

What round does he project to go in? What system will he be a fit for? Will he washout, be JAG, or blow up?
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Old 12-09-2014, 10:04 AM   #117
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Just read the Percy Harvin might be available in the offseason as Jets move into rebuilding mode.

Current contract is pricey, but he and Bowe would be a nice duo.
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Old 12-12-2014, 03:17 PM   #118
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Phillip Dorsett from Da U should be tops on our board.

He'll run in the 4.3's, has elite quickness, is 5"10 with 195 lbs. This guy is very similar to Randall Cobb.

Imagine double-dipping and taking Dorsett early and WR like Levi Norwood, Tyler Lockett or Antwan Goodley with our 3rd rd comp pick.
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Old 12-12-2014, 03:19 PM   #119
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Originally Posted by RunKC View Post
Phillip Dorsett from Da U should be tops on our board.

He'll run in the 4.3's, has elite quickness, is 5"10 with 195 lbs. This guy is very similar to Randall Cobb.

Imagine double-dipping and taking Dorsett early and WR like Levi Norwood, Tyler Lockett or Antwan Goodley with our 3rd rd comp pick.
I'd take a shot on Davaris Daniels in the 4th round if he decides to come out.
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Old 12-12-2014, 03:44 PM   #120
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"Phillip Dorsett missed five games last season with a partially torn medial collateral ligament in his left knee – not to mention a pulled left quadriceps just before the Russell Athletic Bowl.

But man, can this Miami Hurricane fly.

This month, Dorsett set a University of Miami all-time best of 4.21 seconds in the 40-yard dash, bettering former Hurricane Sam Shields’ 4.26 record.

Both those times, said UM Canes strength and conditioning coach Andreu Swasey, were averages of a few stopwatches timing the players for each 40.

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One stopwatch, Swasey said, had Dorsett running a 4.18.

“He’s definitely explosive,” Swasey said Friday of the senior, who graduated from Fort Lauderdale St. Thomas Aquinas High and has caught 85 passes for 1,261 yards and seven touchdowns in 32 games. “Dorsett has gotten so much faster. It’s amazing what he has done.”

Read more here: http://www.miamiherald.com/sports/co...#storylink=cpy

He's not some scrawny stick like DAT, Dante Hall, Tavon Austin or DMC. This guy is 195 lbs with good muscle. And he's a very good blocker.

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Mahomes stat prediction: 30 TD’s/14 INT’s/4,200 yards
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