Better Call Saul

[rico]

As I am sure many of y'all already know, a spinoff of "Breaking Bad" titled "Better Call Saul" will be airing in 2014. This is going to be a prequel to Breaking Bad and will be based on the character of Saul Goodman from "Breaking Bad."

I, for one, will be watching. I'm sure the majority of all of you other "Breaking Bad" fans will be as well. Might as well get the discussion going sooner rather than later.

So... what are your hopes, expectations and/or concerns with the show? Here are some of mine:

Hopes: I hope to see Saul do his thing in the courtroom. I hope to see strong, unique supporting characters. I hope to see Breaking Bad foreshadowing. I hope he has an intriguing paralegal and/or assistant. I hope to see Breaking Bad characters such as Fring, Mike, etc...whoever. I hope the show kicks ass.

Expectations: I don't expect it to be as good as "Breaking Bad" (because nothing else is, really), but I expect it to be good since Vince Gilligan is writing. I somewhat expect it to have an even balance of comedy and drama...since Saul undeniably provides a substantial amount of comedic relief in "Breaking Bad." I expect to see "courtroom Saul." I expect the "Breaking Bad" references and character cameos to be less than what I hope. If it isn't even a fraction as good as "Breaking Bad," I expect it to be better than 95% of everything else on TV, since there is some shitty shit on TV these days.

Concerns: I'd be a liar if I were to say that I didn't think this show has potential of flopping and certainly failing to meet the presumed high expectations of the audience. Don't get me wrong, I think it will be good... but I think it COULD suck if not executed properly. My main concern is Saul ultimately proving himself to be a "little dab will do ya" type of character, which would lead to a show centered around his character not working out. I am hoping that the character of Saul will not be so over-used and constantly over the top, that he becomes annoying to me, thus ruining his character for me altogether... Not saying I think this will be how it goes down...just saying I think there is a CHANCE of this being the case, which prompts me to believe that a strong supporting cast is VITAL in terms of the amount of success/quality this show will accumulate. All in all, I don't think VG will steer us in an unfortunate direction though...I think they'll pull it off.

Thoughts?

DISCUS!!!!

[Buehler445]

Originally Posted by frankotank

some interesting convo in here about whether he's crushed or just doesn't give a shit.
I think it's both. at first he was crushed.....then came to an acceptance.....then moved on. unfortunately in the interest of time I don't think it played very well in 45 minutes of television. in the real world it WOULD take time to digest.....be ****ING PISSED OFFFFF.....for a while actually.....and then get to acceptance (Jimmy shrugs and says "my brother thinks I'm scum and I've realized nothing I can do will ever change that)....and then move past it. but in TV world they don't wanna use 2 or 3 episodes for this transition.

before watching the latest episode I went back and watched the Chuck/Jimmy exchange where Jimmy called him out. amazing scene. as soon as Chuck realized Jimmy knew....his facial expression changed to one of.....ugh....just....it just repulsed me. arrogant. mean. almost evil.
**** you chuck!

To be fair, he was running scams for a week, when he decided to go back to New Mexico. Think about it like if he were binging with substance abuse. That's a hell of a long time to be drunk as **** or high as a kite From that perspective, that's a hell of a lot of coping.

The scene is incredibly well acted and produced. I agree, Chuck couldn't hold the facade anymore. It was weird to me though, that he tried to get Jimmy to come back after he ****ing drug his ass through the mud and Jimmy left.

That scene and Mike explaining to his daughter in law WTF is going on are the best scenes in the series. Goddamned powerful television.

[OnTheWarpath15]

Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins

I don't really think they're similar at all. Walt was a megalomaniac, which is why being a meth kingpin was so enjoyable for him. It wasn't about the wealth afforded by the position, but the power. The money was just an excuse to continue gobbling more and more power.

Jimmy is more of a traditional antihero, a true mixture of good and bad. He's displayed far more compassion, charity, and ethical behavior in 10 episodes than Walt did in 60+. He ultimately embraces his dark side because that's all he's ever been told he is.

Basically, Jimmy becomes Saul as a result of a shame spiral; Walt becomes Heisenberg because it's an opportunity to create a fiefdom.

This.

He's not in the meth business, or the money business.

He's in the empire business.

[penguinz]

Originally Posted by Buehler445

To be fair, he was running scams for a week, when he decided to go back to New Mexico. Think about it like if he were binging with substance abuse. That's a hell of a long time to be drunk as **** or high as a kite From that perspective, that's a hell of a lot of coping.

The scene is incredibly well acted and produced. I agree, Chuck couldn't hold the facade anymore. It was weird to me though, that he tried to get Jimmy to come back after he ****ing drug his ass through the mud and Jimmy left.

That scene and Mike explaining to his daughter in law WTF is going on are the best scenes in the series. Goddamned powerful television.

Chuck had nothing to do with wanting Jimmy back. The firm that HHM had to hire on to help with the case wanted Jimmy because all of the old people really liked and trusted Jimmy.

[Buehler445]

Originally Posted by penguinz

Chuck had nothing to do with wanting Jimmy back. The firm that HHM had to hire on to help with the case wanted Jimmy because all of the old people really liked and trusted Jimmy.

No I meant telling him he wasn't a lawyer and shit. Dragging him through the mud in the verbal sense.

[The Franchise]

Chuck only wanted him back when he realized that Jimmy wouldn't stick around and help him out with his groceries and newspapers.

[frankotank]

Originally Posted by Dicky McElephant

Chuck only wanted him back when he realized that Jimmy wouldn't stick around and help him out with his groceries and newspapers.

yeah....that's exactly the way I took it.
in my mind Chuck is just.....the lowest of the low.

it's not like Jimmy exactly or necessarily deserved Chuck's extreem....SUPER extreem ire. yes Jimmy was a scam artist and whatnot. then he gets a law degree! a LAW DEGREE! we THINK Chuck is proud of him only to find out in reality he simply cannot STAND the idea of Jimmy being on the same footing as himself. and making it so so much worse....it's his own flesh and blood brother. Chuck is just a jealous punk ass playa hater.

it's an unfortunate fact that the ones that can hurt you most are the ones closest to you. furthermore.....what has been spoken can never be unspoken. I've been thru brother/family turmoil. once you come out the other side....where things have been "resolved" ......things are never the same. and never will be.

the coolest thing about Jimmy....he still cares about that bitch. he still....friggin....cares.

I can relate. I still care. some people move on.....but....they don't have it in them to care anymore. they aren't capable of forgiving....at least enough to still give a shit. you know? Jimmy got heart. shoe on the other foot.....Chuck would NEVER forgive Jimmy and he would NEVER give a rats ass about him again....EVER.

[frankotank]

Originally Posted by Fire Me Boy!

I agree with this.

[notorious]

Chuck is 100% right about his brother, he just went about telling him in a horrible way.

[Baby Lee]

Originally Posted by Dicky McElephant

Chuck only wanted him back when he realized that Jimmy wouldn't stick around and help him out with his groceries and newspapers.

Originally Posted by frankotank

yeah....that's exactly the way I took it.
in my mind Chuck is just.....the lowest of the low.

it's not like Jimmy exactly or necessarily deserved Chuck's extreem....SUPER extreem ire. yes Jimmy was a scam artist and whatnot. then he gets a law degree! a LAW DEGREE! we THINK Chuck is proud of him only to find out in reality he simply cannot STAND the idea of Jimmy being on the same footing as himself. and making it so so much worse....it's his own flesh and blood brother. Chuck is just a jealous punk ass playa hater.

it's an unfortunate fact that the ones that can hurt you most are the ones closest to you. furthermore.....what has been spoken can never be unspoken. I've been thru brother/family turmoil. once you come out the other side....where things have been "resolved" ......things are never the same. and never will be.

the coolest thing about Jimmy....he still cares about that bitch. he still....friggin....cares.

I can relate. I still care. some people move on.....but....they don't have it in them to care anymore. they aren't capable of forgiving....at least enough to still give a shit. you know? Jimmy got heart. shoe on the other foot.....Chuck would NEVER forgive Jimmy and he would NEVER give a rats ass about him again....EVER.

BS - Chuck was hamfisted and cowardly in his attempt to keep Jimmy from a position at HHM. But the central driving factor is he idolizes, fetishizes, the practice of law.

He loves his brother as a person, but doesn't respect him as a guardian of the trust between an attorney and a client.

By way of analogy, imagine getting wheeled into an ER for life-saving brain surgery, to find Justin Bieber scrubbed in as your surgeon. He got his license in Guam. He's done some minor surgeries in the past. But he's played pretty fast and loose with procedures in the past and some patients were touch and go.

You may be the biggest Belieber in the world, doesn't mean you want him with a knife rooting around in your brain. Be honest with yourself.

Originally Posted by notorious

Chuck is 100% right about his brother, he just went about telling him in a horrible way.

That's the richer point. McKean was interviewed about his character arc, and he said it was difficult but he placed himself in the position of completely loving his brother but completely believing he was doing the right and proper thing in keeping him off the HHM letterhead.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by Baby Lee

That's the richer point. McKean was interviewed about his character arc, and he said it was difficult but he placed himself in the position of completely loving his brother but completely believing he was doing the right and proper thing in keeping him off the HHM letterhead.

Did anyone else notice that Kim did the exact same thing?

"I just didn't want you to hate your brother..."

Chuck gets barbecued for not trusting Jimmy and trying to keep him out of the firm without hurting him. Meanwhile Kim was also deceptive for the same reasons - she just felt that sparing Jimmy's feelings was more important than raw, unvarnished truth.

Yet nobody's blasting Kim, one of Jimmy's only true friends in the world, whereas they're nailing Chuck to the wall.

Jimmy's getting white knighted again here. I don't think he's saying 'to hell with Chuck...', I think he's saying 'to hell with the straight and narrow' and those are very very different animals. He was given a clear path to a solid legal career with another very large law firm. It was there for the taking but it would require that he keep his nose clean and fly right. Hell, he'd even gotten confirmation that his elder law practice had legs - his clients loved him. He could've been a grinder for 20 years at 6 figures a year, put away a million or so, sold his practice, retired in his mid-late 50s and had a nice, common but fairly affluent life for himself.

But Jimmy, at his core, is a crook. He's a liar and a scam artist. He's not a good guy. He got a nice check and the first thing he did was go back to ripping people off in Chicago. He just got done scamming people both out of money and a quick lay and enjoyed the hell out of it. He had his path to righteousness in front of him and instead decided that he was going to route of the sleazy lawyer. Chuck isn't the reason for that - Chuck simply forecast it correctly.

Again, I'm just confused as to why people are giving him a pass and putting this at Chuck's feet. Chuck is balls on right regarding Jimmy's character and didn't do anything more than Kim did in trying to protect him from the truth of his concerns.

[Baby Lee]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

Jimmy's getting white knighted again here. I don't think he's saying 'to hell with Chuck...', I think he's saying 'to hell with the straight and narrow' and those are very very different animals.

My point, more eloquently and concisely that I could apparently muster.

[The Franchise]

Oh....I wasn't white knighting Jimmy.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by Baby Lee

My point, more eloquently and concisely that I could apparently muster.

One sentence culled from my 5-paragraph essay.

Perhaps you should just be my CP copy-editor. I can hardly type a post these days that isn't at least 100 words long.

[notorious]

Exactly, just like Walt in BB, Jimmy had the right path laid out right in front of him, but chose the bad way because it makes him feel alive.

[Buehler445]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

Did anyone else notice that Kim did the exact same thing?

"I just didn't want you to hate your brother..."

Chuck gets barbecued for not trusting Jimmy and trying to keep him out of the firm without hurting him. Meanwhile Kim was also deceptive for the same reasons - she just felt that sparing Jimmy's feelings was more important than raw, unvarnished truth.

Yet nobody's blasting Kim, one of Jimmy's only true friends in the world, whereas they're nailing Chuck to the wall.

Jimmy's getting white knighted again here. I don't think he's saying 'to hell with Chuck...', I think he's saying 'to hell with the straight and narrow' and those are very very different animals. He was given a clear path to a solid legal career with another very large law firm. It was there for the taking but it would require that he keep his nose clean and fly right. Hell, he'd even gotten confirmation that his elder law practice had legs - his clients loved him. He could've been a grinder for 20 years at 6 figures a year, put away a million or so, sold his practice, retired in his mid-late 50s and had a nice, common but fairly affluent life for himself.

But Jimmy, at his core, is a crook. He's a liar and a scam artist. He's not a good guy. He got a nice check and the first thing he did was go back to ripping people off in Chicago. He just got done scamming people both out of money and a quick lay and enjoyed the hell out of it. He had his path to righteousness in front of him and instead decided that he was going to route of the sleazy lawyer. Chuck isn't the reason for that - Chuck simply forecast it correctly.

Again, I'm just confused as to why people are giving him a pass and putting this at Chuck's feet. Chuck is balls on right regarding Jimmy's character and didn't do anything more than Kim did in trying to protect him from the truth of his concerns.

Good post. I think Kim was the reason why Jimmy got to figuring it out. The impression I got was the way she told him what she did, she pretty much told him it was Chuck. But dealing in simple facts, yeah. She's not blameless in it.