Defense doesn't get worse in the 2nd half, but the OFFENSE sure does.

[TinyEvel]

I had a feeling that the Chiefs were allowing other teams to score big in the 2nd half, so I broke down Points For vs Points Against by half in each game.

Turns out the defense is allowing FEWER points in the 2nd half on average (total 121 allowed in the first half vs 118 in the second half)

It's the OFFENSE that loses its steam in the second half, by a huge margin (174 vs 110 points.)

We've gone into halftime tied in 3 out of 10 games. We've gone to halftime down only twice, and lost both those games (Houston and IND)

Discuss.

[493rd]

No, really, the defense isn’t very good. Having said that, the offense has had opportunity to seal a game and didn’t get it done. But give me a break, this isn’t on Mahomes or the offense overall. There are 31 other teams in the NFL that would probably win a lot more games if they had the offensive firepower like we do capable of scoring 30+ a game. For the Chiefs though, scoring 30 doesn’t seem like enough because the defense will give up 35.

[Marcellus]

Originally Posted by DRM08

And the dumb penalty on Kelce’s TD cost them 4 points. So that’s a 21 point swing on really sloppy mistakes.

Blake Bell!

[493rd]

Originally Posted by TomBarndtsTwin

So, by default, the argument is the defense sucks equally in both halves and the offense has sucked in the second half, but delivers big in the first half?

And we're pointing the finger at the offense as the main culprit for this team struggling??


Seems reasonable.

Right. This is like some Andy Reid fakeout shit. Consider me not fooled.

[Megatron96]

Originally Posted by mnchiefsguy

Did the offense have some trouble?

I think we can say yes. I say it over and over....FG's lose you games, TD's win them. We kicked way too many FG's the last couple of weeks.

Still, the offense put up 32 points despite that, plenty to win.

Problem with the defense was they gave up TD's in the second half and could not get stops, let alone holding them to FG's.

Titans 1st drive of the 2nd half:

4 plays, 4 yards, 2:26 minutes, PUNT

Titans 2nd drive 2nd half:

2 plays, 74 yards, :56 seconds, TD

Titans 3rd drive 2nd half:

6 plays, 12 yards, 2:58 minutes, PUNT

Titans 4th drive, 2nd half:

10 plays, 75 yards, 5:28 minutes, TD

Titans 6th drive, 2nd half:

5 plays, -7 yards, TURNOVER ON DOWNS


Titans 7th drive, 2nd half:

4 plays, 61 yards, :58 seconds, TD


So the idea that the Chiefs couldn't get stops is obviously wrong. Or that they couldn't stop the Titans quickly enough for that matter.

[FAX]

Originally Posted by Megatron96

Titans 1st drive of the 2nd half:

4 plays, 4 yards, 2:26 minutes, PUNT

Titans 2nd drive 2nd half:

2 plays, 74 yards, :56 seconds, TD

Titans 3rd drive 2nd half:

6 plays, 12 yards, 2:58 minutes, PUNT

Titans 4th drive, 2nd half:

10 plays, 75 yards, 5:28 minutes, TD

Titans 6th drive, 2nd half:

5 plays, -7 yards, TURNOVER ON DOWNS


Titans 7th drive, 2nd half:

4 plays, 61 yards, :58 seconds, TD


So the idea that the Chiefs couldn't get stops is obviously wrong. Or that they couldn't stop the Titans quickly enough for that matter.

When you put it like that, it doesn't seem all that bad, Mr. Megatron96.

It's those 2-play and 4-play drives for touchdowns that piss you off, though.

On the other hand, one would expect that a quick strike by the enemy simply serves to give the ball back to the offense who should be able to answer ... something many recliner-seat HCs and GMs have long advocated. We boast, after all, the "Most Explosive Offense In The League".

Maybe when you break it all down, it was, in fact, the Special Teams that lost this game and Toub should be horsewhipped into a mush puddle. I'm not necessarily against that idea.

FAX

[Megatron96]

Originally Posted by FAX

When you put it like that, it doesn't seem all that bad, Mr. Megatron96.

It's those 2-play and 4-play drives for touchdowns that piss you off, though.

On the other hand, one would expect that a quick strike by the enemy simply serves to give the ball back to the offense who should be able to answer ... something many recliner-seat HCs and GMs have long advocated. We boast, after all, the "Most Explosive Offense In The League".

Maybe when you break it all down, it was, in fact, the Special Teams that lost this game and Toub should be horsewhipped into a mush puddle. I'm not necessarily against that idea.

FAX

The last Titans drive for a TD was horrible. The defense didn't step up on that one, obviously. Of course, Fenton (I believe) falling down so his man could get wide open in the middle of the field is what really hurt. Maybe if he doesn't fall down, he makes a play, who knows.

I just dislike the narrative that the defense couldn't get a stop, because obviously they could. Or that they couldn't get off the field quickly enough, because again, they did. They even forced a turnover on downs at a critical moment, something they couldn't do at all last year, ever. Well, not ever, but barely ever. But that's more of a bonus.

The offense scored two TDs and attempted 4 FGs in the second half. Does that sound right to you, because it doesn't to me. And in the first half, the offense scores 1 TD and two FGs. That's 3 TDs and 6 attempts at FGs for the game.

That doesn't sound like Chiefs football. That sounds like OAK or ARI or something.

[FAX]

Originally Posted by Megatron96

The last Titans drive for a TD was horrible. The defense didn't step up on that one, obviously. Of course, Fenton (I believe) falling down so his man could get wide open in the middle of the field is what really hurt. Maybe if he doesn't fall down, he makes a play, who knows.

I just dislike the narrative that the defense couldn't get a stop, because obviously they could. Or that they couldn't get off the field quickly enough, because again, they did. They even forced a turnover on downs at a critical moment, something they couldn't do at all last year, ever. Well, not ever, but barely ever. But that's more of a bonus.

The offense scored two TDs and attempted 4 FGs in the second half. Does that sound right to you, because it doesn't to me. And in the first half, the offense scores 1 TD and two FGs. That's 3 TDs and 6 attempts at FGs for the game.

That doesn't sound like Chiefs football. That sounds like OAK or ARI or something.

We are simpatico in that regard.

Our redzone effort this year has been disappointing and it honestly makes no sense. We can score from the 50, but not the 5. I don't know how that can be justified.

This is one of those horrible losses (the worst kind because it's a game you're "supposed" to win) in which it's difficult to point out a specific failure to pin the fiasco on.

The way I see it, the entire team got caught up in a vortex from which they could not escape. And it took everybody down with it.

I could blame the offense because we should be able to close out these kinds of games ... going away. I can blame the defense because they failed at critical moments. I can blame special teams for the obvious.

When that happens, you start thinking about preparation and the basic mentality of the team. That leads one to consider the very distinct possibility that the coaches had the guys ill-prepared. I saw a team that was over-confident (just like I was) and "expecting" to win ... instead of "earning" a victory.

All you can really do after a debacle of this nature is to put it behind you and make the necessary improvements to (hopefully) avoid a repeat. To that end, a brutal beatdown of the Electricians would go a long way toward making everyone feel a little better ... from the owner to the ballboy.

FAX

[Mama Hip Rockets]

Originally Posted by Megatron96

No one is going to put any blame on the offense, because that means putting some blame on Patrick Mahomes, and no one on this forum can be objective about Mahomes.

Watch this video, then tell me more about how we should put some blame for this defense/special teams shitfest on the greatest quarterback on the planet.

http://www.nfl.com/m/share?p=%2Fvide...return-Week-10

[Megatron96]

Originally Posted by FAX

We are simpatico in that regard.

Our redzone effort this year has been disappointing and it honestly makes no sense. We can score from the 50, but not the 5. I don't know how that can be justified.

This is one of those horrible losses (the worst kind because it's a game you're "supposed" to win) in which it's difficult to point out a specific failure to pin the fiasco on.

The way I see it, the entire team got caught up in a vortex from which they could not escape. And it took everybody down with it.

I could blame the offense because we should be able to close out these kinds of games ... going away. I can blame the defense because they failed at critical moments. I can blame special teams for the obvious.

When that happens, you start thinking about preparation and the basic mentality of the team. That leads one to consider the very distinct possibility that the coaches had the guys ill-prepared. I saw a team that was over-confident (just like I was) and "expecting" to win ... instead of "earning" a victory.

All you can really do after a debacle of this nature is to put it behind you and make the necessary improvements to (hopefully) avoid a repeat. To that end, a brutal beatdown of the Electricians would go a long way toward making everyone feel a little better ... from the owner to the ballboy.

FAX

Roger that.

In my opinion, and that's all it is really, is that the offense is struggling inside the 25-yard line mostly because of injuries. We were minus Tyreek from week 1 until the Texans game. Fisher goes out in week 2(?). Watkins was hurt for several weeks. We lose two(?) more offensive linemen in the Colts game. I think that's when Shady got dinged as well. Pat goes down in the DEN game. And so on.

On Sunday our OL really takes a beating. Our OL is supposed to be (Week 1) Fisher, Wylie (I think), Reiter, LDT, and Schwartz.


On Sunday at one point it was Erving, Rankin, Reiter, Wiz, Allegretti. May have gotten a couple of them mixed up. But that's just ridiculous. That's one starter from Week 1. Say whatever you want about "next man up," that probably severely limits what you can do on offense if four out of five starting OL are on the sidelines.

That's going to hurt protection, run blocking, everything. The playbook probably shrinks down to a dozen plays or so. Okay, maybe two dozen. But it's not going to be the offense you came into the game with.

So they struggled. Honestly, I'm somewhat amazed they only allowed two sacks, and that we scored a pair of TDs and a pair of FGs in the second half. A lot of teams would've just collapsed offensively if you took away four of five starting OL.

[keg in kc]

Been like this all season, and been saying this all season. Even in wins, the offense is streaky, inconsistent. They generally have a short period of just insane production starting in the late first or early second quarter, and then tank for a while. It's like they think they can just flip the switch whenever they want. Problem is, they just haven't...

Kicking too many field goals, and too many 3 and outs/short possessions.

The yardage stats in particular for this team are misleading, because Mahomes has had single quarters where he throws an entire game's worth of yardage, but then gets limited to about 100 for the rest of the game.

And that's great, that we are that dangerous, that we can score fast from anywhere. But you also have to be able to, say, consistently convert one first down with the lead and under 2 minutes on the clock. It's not just about total yards of how much of an early lead you can build. We haven't shown an ability to finish close games, to put teams away. Like Sunday. Nobody gives two shits about Henry's yardage and Tannehill doesn't pull that game out of his ass if the Titans don't get the ball back.

That's part of the job on offense, and for as much focus as the defense gets, we lost the game because we couldn't run the clock out. The defense did exactly what they were supposed to do, shut the Titans down on a drive with 2 minutes left on the clock.

With this offense, with this collection of players and coaches that should have been game over...

So there is definitely room for improvement on all facets of play for the Chiefs. It's easy to point at the obvious issues with the defense and the special teams, but the offense has problems of their own.

[Megatron96]

Originally Posted by Mama Hip Rockets

Watch this video, then tell me more about how we should put some blame for this defense/special teams shitfest on the greatest quarterback on the planet.

http://www.nfl.com/m/share?p=%2Fvide...return-Week-10

The miss to Hill in the first doesn't seem to be in there.

[Mama Hip Rockets]

Originally Posted by Megatron96

The miss to Hill in the first doesn't seem to be in there.

For ****'s sake, man. He threw for 446 yards and 3 TDs (could have had 4, but one called back on a questionable penalty) against the #7 defense in the league. With a makeshift OL of dudes off the street. Multiple open receivers dropped passes. Could have had 500-ish yards.

The defense got gashed by Derrick Henry and Ryan Tannehill, and the special teams had a whole season's worth of ****-ups in one single game.

But Mahomes was slightly less than perfect on one or two throws out of 50 attempts, so yeah, let's discuss how it's his fault they lost. ****ing idiot.

[Megatron96]

Originally Posted by Mama Hip Rockets

For ****'s sake, man. He threw for 446 yards and 3 TDs (could have had 4, but one called back on a questionable penalty) against the #7 defense in the league. With a makeshift OL of dudes off the street. Multiple open receivers dropped passes. Could have had 500-ish yards.

The defense got gashed by Derrick Henry and Ryan Tannehill, and the special teams had a whole season's worth of ****-ups in one single game.

But Mahomes was slightly less than perfect on one or two throws out of 50 attempts, so yeah, let's discuss how it's his fault they lost. ****ing idiot.

You will note that I never said that the loss was Pat's fault. What I said was he left some plays on the field. Plays he ordinarily makes easily.

And I also said that it wasn't really his fault, considering it was his first game back, that his OL got banged up to hell and gone, etc.

My point was, and you're helping me make it admirably by the way, is that if you're going to point at EVERY mistake the defense makes, then you should use the same lens with the offense. And if your going to eviscerate every play a defensive player screws up, then you should also do the same with Pat. Or Hill or whoever.

But CP doesn't do that. You gloss over the mistakes of the players you like and put a billion-lumen spotlight on the mistakes of players you don't. That's called subjective bias and doesn't help get any closer to the TRUTH. You outstanding citizen you.

Oh, and last thought: I'll bet you any amount of money that Patrick knows damn well he left some points on the field Sunday, most particularly the over-throw to Hill in the first, and he's already apologized to Hill and the team for it. And he knows damned well that 6 FG attempts is unacceptable for him and the offense. And it's not about what people expect, it's about what he expects of himself.

[PAChiefsGuy]

Originally Posted by keg in kc

Been like this all season, and been saying this all season. Even in wins, the offense is streaky, inconsistent. They generally have a short period of just insane production starting in the late first or early second quarter, and then tank for a while. It's like they think they can just flip the switch whenever they want. Problem is, they just haven't...

Kicking too many field goals, and too many 3 and outs/short possessions.

The yardage stats in particular for this team are misleading, because Mahomes has had single quarters where he throws an entire game's worth of yardage, but then gets limited to about 100 for the rest of the game.

And that's great, that we are that dangerous, that we can score fast from anywhere. But you also have to be able to, say, consistently convert one first down with the lead and under 2 minutes on the clock. It's not just about total yards of how much of an early lead you can build. We haven't shown an ability to finish close games, to put teams away. Like Sunday. Nobody gives two shits about Henry's yardage and Tannehill doesn't pull that game out of his ass if the Titans don't get the ball back.

That's part of the job on offense, and for as much focus as the defense gets, we lost the game because we couldn't run the clock out. The defense did exactly what they were supposed to do, shut the Titans down on a drive with 2 minutes left on the clock.

With this offense, with this collection of players and coaches that should have been game over...

So there is definitely room for improvement on all facets of play for the Chiefs. It's easy to point at the obvious issues with the defense and the special teams, but the offense has problems of their own.

Our RBs have got to stop with the fumbles as well. Those fumbles are momentum/drive killers. When you have a D as bad as ours and a QB like Mahomes our RBs need to learn you don't have to be the hero. Just do what you do and take care of the football.

[Mama Hip Rockets]

Originally Posted by Megatron96

You will note that I never said that the loss was Pat's fault. What I said was he left some plays on the field. Plays he ordinarily makes easily.

And I also said that it wasn't really his fault, considering it was his first game back, that his OL got banged up to hell and gone, etc.

My point was, and you're helping me make it admirably by the way, is that if you're going to point at EVERY mistake the defense makes, then you should use the same lens with the offense. And if your going to eviscerate every play a defensive player screws up, then you should also do the same with Pat. Or Hill or whoever.

But CP doesn't do that. You gloss over the mistakes of the players you like and put a billion-lumen spotlight on the mistakes of players you don't. That's called subjective bias and doesn't help get any closer to the TRUTH. You outstanding citizen you.

Oh, and last thought: I'll bet you any amount of money that Patrick knows damn well he left some points on the field Sunday, most particularly the over-throw to Hill in the first, and he's already apologized to Hill and the team for it. And he knows damned well that 6 FG attempts is unacceptable for him and the offense. And it's not about what people expect, it's about what he expects of himself.

The difference, obviously, is that Mahomes' mistakes are rare, and he more than makes up for them with consistent outstanding play. That's why people "gloss over" his mistakes. He's the best player in the league.

The defense's mistakes are frequent, ongoing, and not made up for by consistent outstanding play. What have they done to deserve the benefit of their mistakes being glossed over? They've consistently been one of the worst units in football for several years.