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Old 12-14-2017, 12:01 PM  
tooge tooge is online now
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Financial Pros, I have a 401K question
Ok, here's the background. My business has a 401K plan available to my employees and I. I started it 15 years ago through Edward Jones with a patient of mine. He sold his EJ business to another guy who then "ran" the 401K until a couple of years ago. We hit enough money in it, that he told me that he could move us to another company that had more options for us. So, he moves it to Principal. Now, I'm getting bills from some company called McCloud and Associates that is a "qualified plan administrator", I'm pretty sure EJ guy still makes money off of us, and I can't imaging Principal does whatever they do for free. I feel like I'm getting triple fisted here. Any advice?
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Old 12-14-2017, 12:04 PM   #2
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Perhaps Principle is farming out the administration. They do tout themselves as an independent, third party administration (TPA) firm.

Interesting that they are located in KC.
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Old 12-14-2017, 12:36 PM   #3
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With an OP like that it's really difficult to turn this into an Alex Smith thread. Have you by any chance ever filled a cavity of his ?
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Old 12-14-2017, 12:50 PM   #4
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My small company looked into a 401K at one point, but the fees were ludicrous. There's no way that they provide that much value. Even though the upper limit on contributions is painfully low, we just went with a Simple IRA, which is much cheaper to implement.
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Old 12-14-2017, 01:05 PM   #5
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I use a simple IRA as well. 401K fees were outrageous. The girls like the IRA. Very simple.
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Old 12-14-2017, 01:34 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tooge View Post
Ok, here's the background. My business has a 401K plan available to my employees and I. I started it 15 years ago through Edward Jones with a patient of mine. He sold his EJ business to another guy who then "ran" the 401K until a couple of years ago. We hit enough money in it, that he told me that he could move us to another company that had more options for us. So, he moves it to Principal. Now, I'm getting bills from some company called McCloud and Associates that is a "qualified plan administrator", I'm pretty sure EJ guy still makes money off of us, and I can't imaging Principal does whatever they do for free. I feel like I'm getting triple fisted here. Any advice?
This is common practice for Plan Administration of a 401K. As some others mentioned above, this is why most small businesses do not use a 401K for their choice in employee retirement benefits. Sure, you can fund your retirement more than you can with a SIMPLE, but it comes at a pretty high cost in fees. 401k Plans are required to file annual forms with the IRS, which is likely the services that McCloud and Assoc is providing.

Unless you are wanting to contribute more than $12,500 ($15,000 over 50) plus Matching (typically 3% of Gross Pay if S-Corp OR S/E earnings if Partnership) annually towards your retirement, then a 401K really doesn't offer you any advantage over a SIMPLE.
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Old 12-14-2017, 01:36 PM   #7
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I use a simple IRA as well. 401K fees were outrageous. The girls like the IRA. Very simple.
"I have an IRA" is a surprisingly effective pickup line in bars.
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Old 12-14-2017, 02:11 PM   #8
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"I have an IRA" is a surprisingly effective pickup line in bars.
Heh. Wish I would’ve known that 30 years ago........
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Old 12-14-2017, 02:14 PM   #9
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That's the biggest thing is I want to contribute more than 12K per year.
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Old 12-14-2017, 02:25 PM   #10
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That's the biggest thing is I want to contribute more than 12K per year.
www.wealthyplanet.com
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Old 12-14-2017, 02:33 PM   #11
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Heh. Wish I would’ve known that 30 years ago........
"I have an IROC" would have around KC back then
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Old 12-14-2017, 02:41 PM   #12
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"I have an IROC" would have around KC back then
Damn. In grad school I had a cutlass supreme. Damn.
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Old 12-14-2017, 02:47 PM   #13
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Hard to tell if you’re getting fisted but possibly. There are a lot of companies out there that want to do some administration. Shop around.

I’m not much help on the administration side

Quote:
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That's the biggest thing is I want to contribute more than 12K per year.
If I were you I’d hit a Roth IRA for the balance. Max the 401 then stick what you want in a Roth. And you can do that through anyone you want.

Your problem is if you change something now you may catch pushback from your employees. I doubt it will be a problem for you but it is something to be aware of.
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Old 12-14-2017, 03:28 PM   #14
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Ok, thanks. Is it possible to do a SIMPLE IRA and then make up the difference with a Roth? In other words, put the 14K I'm allowed (I"m over 50) in the SIMPLE, then put 7 or 8K into a Roth to make up what I could have put into a 401 K which is $22k for a guy over 50.
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Old 12-14-2017, 03:29 PM   #15
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Ok, thanks. Is it possible to do a SIMPLE IRA and then make up the difference with a Roth? In other words, put the 14K I'm allowed (I"m over 50) in the SIMPLE, then put 7 or 8K into a Roth to make up what I could have put into a 401 K which is $22k for a guy over 50.
Yes. That’s what I do.
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