Why does everybody hate Nickelback?

[Baby Lee]

Originally Posted by Detoxing

The simplicity is part of the original allure imo. I've lost countless hours playing basic, simple Nirvana songs.

Come as you are, smells like teen spirit.....easy to learn and fun to play.

Originally Posted by Frosty

I'm not a guitarist but I thought the whole allure of Nirvana and grunge in general was the whole "do it yourself" ethos. Sort of the second coming of punk.

There's a distinction between passion demonstrated through technical proficiency and passion demonstrated through emotion, and either has the potential to move and inspire you, or leave you cold, depending on what you value.

A good deal of guitarsturbators leave me cold, even if I appreciate their skill.
And a good deal of sloppy garage bands inspire me with their exuberance.

[KCUnited]

Yeah, there's a TON of unnecessary, ego driven bullshit that bogs down genres **cough metal cough**. I lean towards the metal/punk crossover stuff that strips out the one upping, insecure standing within the fanbase, bullshit that gets labeled as "technical" and just stays focused on the fury. Anyone that's been in a band knows it and that's how weird solo parts turn a good 3 minute song into a 4.5 minute mess that people skip to the next track before it ends and usually why the first 2 albums of a discography are the best.

[htismaqe]

Originally Posted by KCUnited

Yeah, there's a TON of unnecessary, ego driven bullshit that bogs down genres **cough metal cough**. I lean towards the metal/punk crossover stuff that strips out the one upping, insecure standing within the fanbase, bullshit that gets labeled as "technical" and just stays focused on the fury. Anyone that's been in a band knows it and that's how weird solo parts turn a good 3 minute song into a 4.5 minute mess that people skip to the next track before it ends and usually why the first 2 albums of a discography are the best.

As member of several metal communities, the elitism is absolutely present. But I will say this - it isn't confined to just metal. I see it the rap scene too. I think it has to do with "hardcore" genres where people are really invested in the artists. Not so much with pop or country.

[KCUnited]

Originally Posted by htismaqe

As member of several metal communities, the elitism is absolutely present. But I will say this - it isn't confined to just metal. I see it the rap scene too. I think it has to do with "hardcore" genres where people are really invested in the artists. Not so much with pop or country.

I think within punk and hardcore, which aren't focused on instrument mastery and technical skill that metal is (speed of drumming being the exception), the ego competition becomes more about who can keep it the "realist". That's why 90% of their songs are about "selling out" and "betrayed our friendship" because someone in the band actually got a real job and can't make practice at 1:00am on a Tuesday.

[htismaqe]

Originally Posted by KCUnited

I think within punk and hardcore, which aren't focused on instrument mastery and technical skill that metal is (speed of drumming being the exception), the ego competition becomes more about who can keep it the "realist". That's why 90% of their songs are about "selling out" and "betrayed our friendship" because someone in the band actually got a real job and can't make practice at 1:00am on a Tuesday.

Exactly. It's not always about musicianship. In fact, a lot of the times it's about things like you mention.

90% of the elitism I see in my main metalhead group is because I like metalcore. It's not about technical proficiency, it's that black and death metal guys think metalcore is for girls.

[htismaqe]

Originally Posted by Baby Lee

There's a distinction between passion demonstrated through technical proficiency and passion demonstrated through emotion, and either has the potential to move and inspire you, or leave you cold, depending on what you value.

This is absolutely true. Technical proficiency can only take one so far. That's why I much prefer Vai to Malmsteen, for example.

Originally Posted by Baby Lee

A good deal of guitarsturbators leave me cold, even if I appreciate their skill.

Yep.

Originally Posted by Baby Lee

And a good deal of sloppy garage bands inspire me with their exuberance.

We part ways here. It's just impossible for me to enjoy music where they're literally beating on their instruments without any thought to musical construction. I just can't do it. I guess I'm a snob.

[Baby Lee]

Originally Posted by htismaqe

We part ways here. It's just impossible for me to enjoy music where they're literally beating on their instruments without any thought to musical construction. I just can't do it. I guess I'm a snob.

Not even, say The Ramones?

I mean, I'm not a Ramones superfan, but I appreciate what they did and why they did it, short powerful fast ditties in response to the meandering studiobound math major opuses of the late 70s.



Also, since people are ragging on Nirvana specifically, and Teen Spirit ultra-specifically, to my point I always thought that the star of that video was Dave Grohl's knees and elbows. His contortions wailing on the drums and the way the cinematographer framed it, is the essence of garage band passion, reminds you of Animal on drums in The Muppets.

[htismaqe]

Originally Posted by Baby Lee

Not even, say The Ramones?

I mean, I'm not a Ramones superfan, but I appreciate what they did and why they did it, short powerful fast ditties in response to the meandering studiobound math major opuses of the late 70s.

The Ramones knew what they were doing, you hit the nail on the head. I have mad respect for them, even if they're not my style of choice. I mean, I have a deep appreciation for Lou Reed for his artistic vision, although his music is still rather simplistic. And even though I'm a metalhead, I have 14 David Bowie albums. Talent is talent.

Originally Posted by Baby Lee

Also, since people are ragging on Nirvana specifically, and Teen Spirit ultra-specifically, to my point I always thought that the star of that video was Dave Grohl's knees and elbows. His contortions wailing on the drums and the way the cinematographer framed it, is the essence of garage band passion, reminds you of Animal on drums in The Muppets.

Dave Grohl is a legitimately-talented multi-instrumentalist.

[Baby Lee]

Originally Posted by htismaqe

The Ramones knew what they were doing, you hit the nail on the head. I have mad respect for them, even if they're not my style of choice. I mean, I have a deep appreciation for Lou Reed for his artistic vision, although his music is still rather simplistic. And even though I'm a metalhead, I have 14 David Bowie albums. Talent is talent.



Dave Grohl is a legitimately-talented multi-instrumentalist.

I'm not saying that dumbly beating on shit is inherently superior to noodling and showing off your skills. I'm just trying to highlight the distinct ways people can display creativity and passion.

That's why Pearl Jam endures for me. They banged stuff out, but the instrumentalists were effing solid, no matter the mayhem they were creating.

That's why Prince Rogers Nelson is a guitar god in my book, because it's passionate and skillful at the same time without ever navelgazing.

[htismaqe]

Originally Posted by Baby Lee

I'm not saying that dumbly beating on shit is inherently superior to noodling and showing off your skills. I'm just trying to highlight the distinct ways people can display creativity and passion.

That's why Pearl Jam endures for me. They banged stuff out, but the instrumentalists were effing solid, no matter the mayhem they were creating.

That's why Prince Rogers Nelson is a guitar god in my book, because it's passionate and skillful at the same time without ever navelgazing.

Yeah, we're not ever going to agree on Pearl Jam. I hate them.

For me, the guy is John 5. Most of the time, you'd never know. He just plays. But then he rips off some crazy arpeggios and follows it up with some bluegrass fingerpicking and you realize the guy is a genius.

[Baby Lee]

Originally Posted by htismaqe

Yeah, we're not ever going to agree on Pearl Jam. I hate them.

Do you hate PJ, or do you hate Eddie mumbling?