Which QB is better: Dak Prescott or Lamar Jackson?

[Deberg_1990]

Was just talking about this with coworkers.

Most agreed Dak overall was better. Both will be looking to get paid soon.

Who’s the better QB?

[DJ's left nut]

Boy...that's a really good question.

I mean, your ceiling is higher with Jackson, I think. You can win a championship in a league that doesn't have Mahomes if you have a coach like Harbaugh that seems to always get great performances from his defenses and a guy like Roman who's schemed up a damn nice system to match Jackson's talents.

Whereas Dak's going to be a better fit for the vast majority of franchises. He's an easier guy to build a solid team around.

I don't think there's really a right answer here - it depends ultimately on your coaching staff.

If Mahomes wasn't a thing and Reid and crew were here? I think I'd go Dak and trust Reid to get him to be a little more aggressive. Reid would build an offense that works for Jackson but he'd wouldn't be able to put his exceptional ability to design route concepts to decent use then. He'd be essentially coaching with one hand behind his back.

Whereas I think he'd get Dak a slightly higher level than he had Alex.

[RaidersOftheCellar]

Originally Posted by Reerun_KC

Dak isn’t nearly as good as the media and Cowboys fans says he is.

His ceiling is Alex Smith.

Not sure how his ceiling could be Alex Smith when he already throws for twice as many yards.

[htismaqe]

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud

How many years does any man need to become an NFL QB? If three years in Petrino's system and 2+ years in Roman's system, which was specifically designed for him, how many more does he need?

I can only give you so much rep but I wanted to call this out.

Petrino groomed SEVERAL NFL QB's. Lamar was there for 3 years. He is what he is. Anybody that thinks his ceiling is that much higher than what he is right now is kidding themselves.

[Chief Pagan]

If I was in win now mode, I would take Lamar, because he can make plays with his legs, but I would never trust his long term health with that style.

So would take Dak if I was forced to give one a long term contact.

[DaneMcCloud]

Originally Posted by htismaqe

Trent Green, yes. Alex Smith, no.

Agree to disagree.

I'd take Alex Smith any day of the week over Trent Green, who absolutely needed a Hall of Fame offensive line because he couldn't evade tacklers.

Teams have given up the #1 overall pick, two second round picks, a 3rd rounder and a $10 million dollar per year CB/Safety for Alex Smith, so it's pretty clear that NFL teams felt Smith was a Franchise QB.

5 seasons in Kansas City:

1. 17,608 yards, 65.1% completion percentage, 102 passing TD's, 10 rushing TD's, 38 Int's.

2. 16,487 yards passing, 61.9% completion percentage, 111 passing TD's, 3 rushing TD's, 85 Int's.

[Megatron96]

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud

There's a reason why 31 teams passed on Lamar Jackson.

Teams passed on him because they couldn't see him running a traditional NFL offense, whether it's the WCO, E/P or Coryell.

Greg Roman also designed an offense for Colin Kaepernick.

Once Roman was fired, Kaepernick struggled in Chip Kelly's WCO and hasn't played a down since.

Oh, I agree with pretty much all of that. Of course, I could always say that 32 teams passed on Tom Brady multiple times, but who cares, really.

Because I completely agree that every team in the NFL looked at Lamar's body of work and decided that he probably would have trouble digesting a true NFL type offense. And they were right.

I thought they did him a disservice by starting him as early as they did. Lamar was always a project that was going to need serious seasoning before he was really ready to run a pro offense.

But they opted to take a shortcut and well here we are.

My only thought or doubt concerning the above is that Harbaugh is not an idiot, and he's supposedly a pretty good 'quarterback whisperer.' So if he wanted Lamar, he had to have a good reason that went beyond "the guy can run really fast." Harbaugh had to believe that he could make this kid a real NFL QB.

[htismaqe]

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud

Agree to disagree.

I'd take Alex Smith any day of the week over Trent Green, who absolutely needed a Hall of Fame offensive line because he couldn't evade tacklers.

Teams have given up the #1 overall pick, two second round picks, a 3rd rounder and a $10 million dollar per year CB/Safety for Alex Smith, so it's pretty clear that NFL teams felt Smith was a Franchise QB.

5 seasons in Kansas City:

1. 17,608 yards, 65.1% completion percentage, 102 passing TD's, 10 rushing TD's, 38 Int's.

2. 16,487 yards passing, 61.9% completion percentage, 111 passing TD's, 3 rushing TD's, 85 Int's.

It's not just the stats.

Everybody who ever watched Alex Smith play knew he was too gun shy to take the risks necessary to win it all.

Sorry, but I'm just never going to agree on this. I don't necessarily disagree on Trent Green but with Alex Smith, the guy was a turtle when it mattered most.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by htismaqe

I can only give you so much rep but I wanted to call this out.

Petrino groomed SEVERAL NFL QB's. Lamar was there for 3 years. He is what he is. Anybody that thinks his ceiling is that much higher than what he is right now is kidding themselves.

Said this last year - my worry with Jackson's ceiling would be that he DOESN'T struggle with decisionmaking.

You can take a guy with mediocre accuracy/arm talent and play him up by fixing his decisionmaking and making sure he goes to the right place with the ball every time. At that point the low degree of difficulty makes him effective.

Jackson has been making good decisions with the football for a long time. He's never really looked all that raw.

His problem isn't how he operates an offense. And that's a REAL problem. Because it means that he's at his ceiling. He's not getting any more talented and his biomechanics just don't make him a precise thrower.

He's as good as he'll ever be. The only exception could be if he does what Russ did and just trains himself constantly into developing a dynamite deep ball, but Russ was always a damn precise passer even before he became a deep ball assasssin.

Jackson isn't that guy so I don't think he can have a similar trajectory.

Jackson will ALWAYS be beholden to the game script. He will never be a guy who simply brings his team back. It'll happen on occasion, but he'll never be truly good at it.

He's a supercharged game manager.

[DRM08]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

Boy...that's a really good question.

I mean, your ceiling is higher with Jackson, I think. You can win a championship in a league that doesn't have Mahomes if you have a coach like Harbaugh that seems to always get great performances from his defenses and a guy like Roman who's schemed up a damn nice system to match Jackson's talents.

Whereas Dak's going to be a better fit for the vast majority of franchises. He's an easier guy to build a solid team around.

I don't think there's really a right answer here - it depends ultimately on your coaching staff.

If Mahomes wasn't a thing and Reid and crew were here? I think I'd go Dak and trust Reid to get him to be a little more aggressive. Reid would build an offense that works for Jackson but he'd wouldn't be able to put his exceptional ability to design route concepts to decent use then. He'd be essentially coaching with one hand behind his back.

Whereas I think he'd get Dak a slightly higher level than he had Alex.

Andy made Vick look pretty good as a passer in Philly. Lamar seems more accurate than Vick ever was. I think Andy would do very well with either one of these guys. He gets very good performance out of every QB he coaches. It’s extremely impressive.

[DaneMcCloud]

Originally Posted by Megatron96

Oh, I agree with pretty much all of that. Of course, I could always say that 32 teams passed on Tom Brady multiple times, but who cares, really.

Tom Brady didn't win the Heisman Trophy, nor was he on anyone's radar in terms of being a Franchise QB, so that's a really lame argument to make.

Originally Posted by Megatron96

Because I completely agree that every team in the NFL looked at Lamar's body of work and decided that he probably would have trouble digesting a true NFL type offense. And they were right.

I thought they did him a disservice by starting him as early as they did. Lamar was always a project that was going to need serious seasoning before he was really ready to run a pro offense.

But they opted to take a shortcut and well here we are.

The Ravens didn't take any "shortcuts". They knew Jackson wasn't capable of running a traditional NFL offense, knew he wasn't a pocket passer and designed an offense to best suit his abilities.

And while he may have duped NFL writers and players into thinking he was the best player in the NFL in 2019, it was clear to see that Mahomes was light years ahead of him.

Originally Posted by Megatron96

My only thought or doubt concerning the above is that Harbaugh is not an idiot, and he's supposedly a pretty good 'quarterback whisperer.' So if he wanted Lamar, he had to have a good reason that went beyond "the guy can run really fast." Harbaugh had to believe that he could make this kid a real NFL QB.

John Harbaugh has never been viewed as a "QB Whisperer".

He was a Special Teams coordinator for Reid in Philly before being hired by the Ravens.

[htismaqe]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

Said this last year - my worry with Jackson's ceiling would be that he DOESN'T struggle with decisionmaking.

You can take a guy with mediocre accuracy/arm talent and play him up by fixing his decisionmaking and making sure he goes to the right place with the ball every time. At that point the low degree of difficulty makes him effective.

Jackson has been making good decisions with the football for a long time. He's never really looked all that raw.

His problem isn't how he operates an offense. And that's a REAL problem. Because it means that he's at his ceiling. He's not getting any more talented and his biomechanics just don't make him a precise thrower.

He's as good as he'll ever be. The only exception could be if he does what Russ did and just trains himself constantly into developing a dynamite deep ball, but Russ was always a damn precise passer even before he became a deep ball assasssin.

Jackson isn't that guy so I don't think he can have a similar trajectory.

Jackson will ALWAYS be beholden to the game script. He will never be a guy who simply brings his team back. It'll happen on occasion, but he'll never be truly good at it.

He's a supercharged game manager.

Cannot agree more.

As for Russ, he was one of the most accurate college QB's I've ever seen. Yeah, he's definitely refined his deep ball but coming out, I remember telling people that he had elite accuracy. It might have been in one of the old Senior Bowl threads.

[DaneMcCloud]

Originally Posted by htismaqe

Sorry, but I'm just never going to agree on this.

All good

[htismaqe]

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud

Tom Brady didn't win the Heisman Trophy, nor was he on anyone's radar in terms of being a Franchise QB, so that's a really lame argument to make.

Brady did fit the Parcells model though.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by DRM08

Andy made Vick look pretty good as a passer in Philly. Lamar seems more accurate than Vick ever was. I think Andy would do very well with either one of these guys. He gets very good performance out of every QB he coaches. It’s extremely impressive.

It's funny - I think there's a real slight distinction between Jackson and Vick here. Jackson does throw a more catchable ball, but its in large part BECAUSE he lacked Vick's arm talent.

Vick just threw !@#$ing missiles and if he didn't hit you in the chest with it, they were just really hard to adjust to and haul in. Whereas Jackson kinda tosses these soft little wobble-launchers that guys can chase down and/or adjust to snag.

I don't think Jackson would be any better at throwing a football through a tire-swing than Vick. In fact, I think he'd be worse. But Vick's touch was just so damn bad (essentially non-existant) that he had to be razor sharp to get a catchable ball to you.

I almost think Reid's ability to create separation downfield makes him BETTER suited for Vick than it does Jackson because over distance, a WR can make the adjustment on a Vick pass that he can't make at 12 yards when it's coming at 100 mph. Whereas Jackson just can't put the ass on it to take advantage of those deep shots and advance route concepts.

Just a theory.

Jackson just seems like a more aggressive, less adept Alex Smith purely as a thrower. At a point there's just not a good enough foundation to work with there.

[PurpleRiders51]

Imo Daq.