Fire Bob Sutton

[petegz28]

That is all.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by Superturtle

Chris Jones, Dee Ford, and Justin Houston with their 28 sacks just isn't enough.

Anthony Hitchens and Kendall Fuller are both severely underperforming compared to where they were at last year, but that's just a coincidence, right?

Watching other teams defense and comparing it to ours, it's like we're playing a different sport. Instead of swarming and attacking the ball carrier, they wait for the RB to get to them, and inevitably get driven back for an extra 2 or 3 yards. ****ing sick of this scheme.

So Jones, Ford and Houston playing great football has nothing to do with him but Hitchens playing like shit is his fault?

And if you think Fuller's severely under-performing you're just wrong. He wasn't playing as well out wide early so we gave him some run in the middle to get his head back on straight. Since about week 4, Fuller's been among the better CBs in the AFC including in the base packages when we keep him out wide. Even when the defense is getting strafed, the offenses are going around Fuller, not through him.

This will be about my 5th run at this, but please tell me what Sutton does from a scheme specific standpoint that so inspires your ire. I have watched and watched and watched this all season and have pleaded with folks to give me some kind of substantive rebuttal here regarding "Sutton's Complicated Scheme" and none of y'all ever do. You just wander off and then come back to make some other nebulous complaints the following weeks.

This. Isn't. Scheme.

His scheme is fine. It is in many ways quite good but in most ways it is just...normal. You complain about dropping Houston back into coverage and continually ignore the fact that the coverage responsibility A) has to be handled by somebody and our ILBs damn sure can't do it and B) Is a HUGE reason why our blitzes are effective. When the DL's don't know who's coming/going, it helps us a lot.

Moreover, our blitz packages, while less frequent than many teams, are actually damn creative. When you see things like Chris Jones having sacks in 9 straight games, how can you ignore how many of those came off confusion from the DL? Sutton's use of his LBs to free up Jones has been really impressive; Jones has had several sacks this year where the DL has just left him unblocked because they couldn't figure out where the pressure was coming from and Jones ended up looping or twisting or stunting or whatever and getting a free shot in. And then he'll build off that and use the threat of Jones to free up his LBs. The overload blitz on the strip sack was outstanding yesterday and I think it was design that freed Houston up to get there as easily as he did.

Sutton's a smart defensive mind but he's overly loyal, he's too reserved and I think his players have started to tune him out because of those factors. It's time to move on from him. But this flat out ****ing wrong nonsense regarding scheme is just tiresome.

[FloridaMan88]

Originally Posted by Superturtle

There were plays where we were in nickel with 2 down linemen. Bob Sutton absolutely was an idiot on that drive.

This.

Sutton started the game with the defense in the nickel.

[RunKC]

Originally Posted by Superturtle

Chris Jones, Dee Ford, and Justin Houston with their 28 sacks just isn't enough.

Anthony Hitchens and Kendall Fuller are both severely underperforming compared to where they were at last year, but that's just a coincidence, right?

Watching other teams defense and comparing it to ours, it's like we're playing a different sport. Instead of swarming and attacking the ball carrier, they wait for the RB to get to them, and inevitably get driven back for an extra 2 or 3 yards. ****ing sick of this scheme.

Uh...Kendall Fuller was everything we hoped for on Sunday. He looked like a damn all pro.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by KCChiefsFan88

This.

Sutton started the game with the defense in the nickel.

To 'start the game' the Ravens dropped back to pass 3 times in their first 5 plays, were sacked and ultimately had to pun after gaining a whopping 13 yards. Sutton was right. Maybe it was film they say or formations or the people in the huddle. Maybe it was just a damn hunch but in the end Sutton dialed up the absolute right answers in that first drive.

THIS is your complaint?

Jesus Christ...

[Sassy Squatch]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

So Jones, Ford and Houston playing great football has nothing to do with him but Hitchens playing like shit is his fault?

And if you think Fuller's severely under-performing you're just wrong. He wasn't playing as well out wide early so we gave him some run in the middle to get his head back on straight. Since about week 4, Fuller's been among the better CBs in the AFC including in the base packages when we keep him out wide. Even when the defense is getting strafed, the offenses are going around Fuller, not through him.

This will be about my 5th run at this, but please tell me what Sutton does from a scheme specific standpoint that so inspires your ire. I have watched and watched and watched this all season and have pleaded with folks to give me some kind of substantive rebuttal here regarding "Sutton's Complicated Scheme" and none of y'all ever do. You just wander off and then come back to make some other nebulous complaints the following weeks.

This. Isn't. Scheme.

His scheme is fine. It is in many ways quite good but in most ways it is just...normal. You complain about dropping Houston back into coverage and continually ignore the fact that the coverage responsibility A) has to be handled by somebody and our ILBs damn sure can't do it and B) Is a HUGE reason why our blitzes are effective. When the DL's don't know who's coming/going, it helps us a lot.

Moreover, our blitz packages, while less frequent than many teams, are actually damn creative. When you see things like Chris Jones having sacks in 9 straight games, how can you ignore how many of those came off confusion from the DL? Sutton's use of his LBs to free up Jones has been really impressive; Jones has had several sacks this year where the DL has just left him unblocked because they couldn't figure out where the pressure was coming from and Jones ended up looping or twisting or stunting or whatever and getting a free shot in. And then he'll build off that and use the threat of Jones to free up his LBs. The overload blitz on the strip sack was outstanding yesterday and I think it was design that freed Houston up to get there as easily as he did.

Sutton's a smart defensive mind but he's overly loyal, he's too reserved and I think his players have started to tune him out because of those factors. It's time to move on from him. But this flat out ****ing wrong nonsense regarding scheme is just tiresome.

There are former players that have said his scheme takes 2+ years to learn and that they are asked to read and react instead of attack.

[Chiefnj2]

NFL teams don't use timeouts enough for defensive adjustments. Only in the redzone where there is an obvious mismatch.

[htismaqe]

Originally Posted by farmerchief

I mentioned in another post how enjoyable it was watching the Bears defense last night. They were very sure tacklers and they did, indeed, attack the ball carrier/wide receiver when encountering them. I was hopeful our guys were watching, but it could be the scheme that contributes to this poor defense? Regardless of how this season turns out, even if we win the super bowl, Sutton should retire or be dismissed. But Andy will never do it, even if we lose more games.

The Bears defense is loaded with talent. Heavily.

Do you like watching their offense?

[htismaqe]

Originally Posted by Titty Meat

Dallas defense much improved since Hitchens left. This is on Veach who would rather spend 19 mil for a WR with a broken foot instead of upgrading the safety position.

Dallas defense is much improved since all their guys came back from suspensions and injuries.

[htismaqe]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

So Jones, Ford and Houston playing great football has nothing to do with him but Hitchens playing like shit is his fault?

And if you think Fuller's severely under-performing you're just wrong. He wasn't playing as well out wide early so we gave him some run in the middle to get his head back on straight. Since about week 4, Fuller's been among the better CBs in the AFC including in the base packages when we keep him out wide. Even when the defense is getting strafed, the offenses are going around Fuller, not through him.

This will be about my 5th run at this, but please tell me what Sutton does from a scheme specific standpoint that so inspires your ire. I have watched and watched and watched this all season and have pleaded with folks to give me some kind of substantive rebuttal here regarding "Sutton's Complicated Scheme" and none of y'all ever do. You just wander off and then come back to make some other nebulous complaints the following weeks.

This. Isn't. Scheme.

His scheme is fine. It is in many ways quite good but in most ways it is just...normal. You complain about dropping Houston back into coverage and continually ignore the fact that the coverage responsibility A) has to be handled by somebody and our ILBs damn sure can't do it and B) Is a HUGE reason why our blitzes are effective. When the DL's don't know who's coming/going, it helps us a lot.

Moreover, our blitz packages, while less frequent than many teams, are actually damn creative. When you see things like Chris Jones having sacks in 9 straight games, how can you ignore how many of those came off confusion from the DL? Sutton's use of his LBs to free up Jones has been really impressive; Jones has had several sacks this year where the DL has just left him unblocked because they couldn't figure out where the pressure was coming from and Jones ended up looping or twisting or stunting or whatever and getting a free shot in. And then he'll build off that and use the threat of Jones to free up his LBs. The overload blitz on the strip sack was outstanding yesterday and I think it was design that freed Houston up to get there as easily as he did.

Sutton's a smart defensive mind but he's overly loyal, he's too reserved and I think his players have started to tune him out because of those factors. It's time to move on from him. But this flat out ****ing wrong nonsense regarding scheme is just tiresome.

[IowaHawkeyeChief]

Did anyone watch the bears last night? They dropped Mack into zone coverage several times.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by Superturtle

There are former players that have said his scheme takes 2+ years to learn and that they are asked to read and react instead of attack.

I've spoken to that as well.

There is ONE former player who said that - Ron Parker. The same Ron Parker who had his ONLY success in that scheme. The same Ron Parker who was an immediate contributor and key player in that scheme within weeks of being picked up off waivers. Beyond that, please provide the 'read and react' quote - I'm pretty sure that's editorializing because I don't believe that was part of any quote from a player complaining about the defense.

Moreover, Ron Parker's own words don't make any sense as applied to Ron Parker. And then Soren Petro started spouting them as gospel without thinking or actually reviewing what the team is doing out there.

Parker is trying to justify his spot on the roster when he's being asked questions by the media. The 'savvy veteran here to show the kids the ropes in this super complicated system' mantra is sure a convenient one for the washed up veteran to be selling, isn't it?

Funny how not terribly complicated it was when he was dropped into it after being cut after camp and played just fine.

I reiterate - instead of just parroting a line that doesn't make sense on its face (and embellishing it as well - nicely done), if YOU'RE the guy that's going to try to make the claim as though its your own, how about you try to marshall some support for it.

Literally every time I've had this conversation it's hit a dead end because the people that spew this nonsense invariably don't have the acumen to support it. The people that DO have actually critically examined this system and realized "well I'll be damned....it's actually pretty simple when you start looking at it"

Again - I'm open to discourse here but "well Ron Parker said so" ain't discourse. It's an logical fallacy that can't stand up to the slightest bit of scrutiny.

[htismaqe]

Originally Posted by IowaHawkeyeChief

Did anyone watch the bears last night? They dropped Mack into zone coverage several times.

IDIOTS!!!

[Titty Meat]

Originally Posted by htismaqe

Dallas defense is much improved since all their guys came back from suspensions and injuries.

That helps but their linebacker play is much better. Hitchens is an overpaid JAG

[RunKC]

It’s so frustrating watching the defense be in good position and Ron Parker ****ing it up.

10:46 left in the 4th. We have a good pressure blitz on Jackson and everyone else looks covered.

And there’s a wide open receiver that makes the catch. Parker wasn’t within 10 yards of the damn guy.

Once again I keep seeing this shit and get sad thinking that we could have had Earl Thomas.

[htismaqe]

Originally Posted by Titty Meat

That helps but their linebacker play is much better. Hitchens is an overpaid JAG

Hitchens was just fine in Dallas but he's not Jaylon Smith. Anybody that watches the Cowboys knows this.