Better Call Saul

[rico]

As I am sure many of y'all already know, a spinoff of "Breaking Bad" titled "Better Call Saul" will be airing in 2014. This is going to be a prequel to Breaking Bad and will be based on the character of Saul Goodman from "Breaking Bad."

I, for one, will be watching. I'm sure the majority of all of you other "Breaking Bad" fans will be as well. Might as well get the discussion going sooner rather than later.

So... what are your hopes, expectations and/or concerns with the show? Here are some of mine:

Hopes: I hope to see Saul do his thing in the courtroom. I hope to see strong, unique supporting characters. I hope to see Breaking Bad foreshadowing. I hope he has an intriguing paralegal and/or assistant. I hope to see Breaking Bad characters such as Fring, Mike, etc...whoever. I hope the show kicks ass.

Expectations: I don't expect it to be as good as "Breaking Bad" (because nothing else is, really), but I expect it to be good since Vince Gilligan is writing. I somewhat expect it to have an even balance of comedy and drama...since Saul undeniably provides a substantial amount of comedic relief in "Breaking Bad." I expect to see "courtroom Saul." I expect the "Breaking Bad" references and character cameos to be less than what I hope. If it isn't even a fraction as good as "Breaking Bad," I expect it to be better than 95% of everything else on TV, since there is some shitty shit on TV these days.

Concerns: I'd be a liar if I were to say that I didn't think this show has potential of flopping and certainly failing to meet the presumed high expectations of the audience. Don't get me wrong, I think it will be good... but I think it COULD suck if not executed properly. My main concern is Saul ultimately proving himself to be a "little dab will do ya" type of character, which would lead to a show centered around his character not working out. I am hoping that the character of Saul will not be so over-used and constantly over the top, that he becomes annoying to me, thus ruining his character for me altogether... Not saying I think this will be how it goes down...just saying I think there is a CHANCE of this being the case, which prompts me to believe that a strong supporting cast is VITAL in terms of the amount of success/quality this show will accumulate. All in all, I don't think VG will steer us in an unfortunate direction though...I think they'll pull it off.

Thoughts?

DISCUS!!!!

[Mojo Rising]

The preview showed Jimmy's Girlfriend Kim go into Hamlins office. We know she wants to make partner so somehow she back stabs Jimmy and the fees end up with Hamlin and she ends up a Partner. My guess is that she testifies that Chuck is incompetent in court based on the hospital visit so that Harry can take the case. Harry settles so it doesn't go to court for a fat fee.

This either drives Chuck to death or the looney bin, ends Jimmy's relationship with Kim and turns Jimmy into Saul.

Somewhere along the line he will change his business plan from playing bingo to placing adds at bus stops that say Better Call Saul.

I don't like the prequel in that we know the ending. I will sit through the worse shows just to see how the writer ends the story.

[Jamie]

Originally Posted by Mojo Rising

I don't like the prequel in that we know the ending. I will sit through the worse shows just to see how the writer ends the story.

I think the show will end in the post-Breaking Bad time frame. Just a hunch, not based on anything.

[mdchiefsfan]

Originally Posted by penguinz

Spoiler what? It is a theory on what he thinks will happen.

It does not spoil anything at all.

I guess the smiley didn't indicate my intentions. Let me elaborate:

It seemed to make so much sense, that I joking stated a spoiler was required.

Apologies.

[RobBlake]

Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins

The methylamine was just a precursor needed for the manufacture of methamphetamine.

All methylamine has to be synthesized. Pretty much every organic product you come in contact with on a daily basis is synthesized through an industrial process.

Purity, toxicity, and cost are the biggest issues in organic synthesis.

There are a few different processes I know of (I'm sure there are several others) by which you can produce a primary amine, like methylamine: reductive amination and Gabriel Amine Synthesis.

For someone as supposedly gifted as Walt to be unaware of how to perform reductive amination in a controlled environment (he didn't need to worry about it with Gus, but he did elsewhere) was conflict for the sake of conflict in the plot.

Thanks for the short lesson.. very helpful

[Chiefspants]

Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins

The methylamine was just a precursor needed for the manufacture of methamphetamine.

All methylamine has to be synthesized. Pretty much every organic product you come in contact with on a daily basis is synthesized through an industrial process.

Purity, toxicity, and cost are the biggest issues in organic synthesis.

There are a few different processes I know of (I'm sure there are several others) by which you can produce a primary amine, like methylamine: reductive amination and Gabriel Amine Synthesis.

For someone as supposedly gifted as Walt to be unaware of how to perform reductive amination in a controlled environment (he didn't need to worry about it with Gus, but he did elsewhere) was conflict for the sake of conflict in the plot.

I was always under the impression that it would have been cost prohibitive for Walt and Jesse to synthesize their own methylamine (if memory serves I read an article about this issue a while ago).

Jesse and Walt would have either had to have stolen the chemicals required to synthesize methylamine, or found a way to purchase the industrial quantities of said chemicals without attracting unwelcome attention. In addition, this would have added a step in their overall responsibilities, and there would have been the risk that the quality of the methylamine would not have been up to the standard to the product they received from Lydia or the tanker.

At least to me, it seemed like the long term solution was finding a way to have pre-made methylamine on hand, rather than adding a costly and somewhat risky step to their overall process.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

Originally Posted by Chiefspants

I was always under the impression that it would have been cost prohibitive for Walt and Jesse to synthesize their own methylamine (if memory serves I read an article about this issue a while ago).

Jesse and Walt would have either had to have stolen the chemicals required to synthesize methylamine, or found a way to purchase the industrial quantities of said chemicals without attracting unwelcome attention. In addition, this would have added a step in their overall responsibilities, and there would have been the risk that the quality of the methylamine would not have been up to the standard to the product they received from Lydia or the tanker.

At least to me, it seemed like the long term solution was finding a way to have pre-made methylamine on hand, rather than adding a costly and somewhat risky step to their overall process.

Methylamine is a Schedule 1 precursor, which means that it is extremely difficult to buy outright, and its purchases are monitored and tracked. However, the chemicals needed to synthesize methylamine are readily available for purchase and not traced by the DEA or other agencies.

Purchasing the precursor chemicals in smaller amounts would have neither raised any red flags, led to future shortages, or necessitated a great train robbery.

[Chiefspants]

Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins

Methylamine is a Schedule 1 precursor, which means that it is extremely difficult to buy outright, and its purchases are monitored and tracked. However, the chemicals needed to synthesize methylamine are readily available for purchase and not traced by the DEA or other agencies.

From my (very limited) knowledge of chemicals, I thought that ANY chemical purchased at the level required to run a worldwide meth empire would have quickly attracted scrutiny from the federal government.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

Originally Posted by Chiefspants

From my (very limited) knowledge of chemicals, I thought that ANY chemical purchased at the level required to run a worldwide meth empire would have quickly attracted scrutiny from the federal government.

They stole a total of 1000 gallons of methylamine.

Ammonia in a methanol solvent is what you would need (at least, it'd be the easiest). Both chemicals are available.

Also, if we watch the show, we're supposed to believe that methylamine is tough to come by, but that Walt has no problem procuring phenylacetone for his P2P cook. However, phenylacetone is also a controlled precursor.

So, either Walt is able to procure one Schedule I precursor but not another, or he can synthesize phenylacetone, but not methylamine.

Honestly, they probably did it so the show wasn't a how-to on meth-manufacture and for dramatic license.

[Chiefspants]

Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins

Honestly, they probably did it so the show wasn't a how-to on meth-manufacture and for dramatic license.

Gilligan has admitted to this in several interviews. I was not even aware about the existence of phenylacetone, so it does seem like at least some of the drama around methylamine was used for dramatic effect.

Though, from the article I read (still looking for it), the problems Walt had obtaining methylamine wasn't plot bending enough to warrant too much criticism toward the writers.

[Zebedee DuBois]

Your points about BB making some ingredients hard to come by and others not mentioned - I have no argument at all - you are correct that they do not ring true.
But all Nitrogen bearing compounds are tracked to some extent by the govt. The simplest, ammonia, can be used by the Walts or the Timothy McVeys. While readily available, they don't just sell it in bulk to anyone.

[mr. tegu]

It seems pretty clear to me that HHM is going to join in on the case because of Chuck not being allowed to do big cases without them. This will obviously cause resentment from Saul and possibly conflict with the lady friend (name?) but I don't think this will lead to any big epiphany for Saul to become Saul.

If anything maybe HHM uses this as an excuse to get rid of Chuck and that makes Saul start to dip his toes in the muddy end.

[Mojo Rising]

Originally Posted by Jamie

I think the show will end in the post-Breaking Bad time frame. Just a hunch, not based on anything.

I hope that you are right. It seems like we know the ending and we are just trying to fill in the blanks.

Gilligan does a great job so I expect a great show however it ends, or begins.

[DaneMcCloud]

Originally Posted by Chiefspants

Gilligan has admitted to this in several interviews. I was not even aware about the existence of phenylacetone, so it does seem like at least some of the drama around methylamine was used for dramatic effect.

Though, from the article I read (still looking for it), the problems Walt had obtaining methylamine wasn't plot bending enough to warrant too much criticism toward the writers.

The methylamime was the McGuffin of BB.

[mdchiefsfan]

Originally Posted by Mojo Rising

I hope that you are right. It seems like we know the ending and we are just trying to fill in the blanks.

Gilligan does a great job so I expect a great show however it ends, or begins.

Given the fact that the pilot showed Saul hiding out and owning his own Cinnabon, I think it's safe to say they established where the series would end.

Not being a dick, just stating the facts.

[Jamie]

Originally Posted by mdchiefsfan

Given the fact that the pilot showed Saul hiding out and owning his own Cinnabon, I think it's safe to say they established where the series would end.

Not being a dick, just stating the facts.

I think something will come up that draws him back to Albuquerque in the post-Breaking Bad time frame. Like something he does over the course of this series comes back to haunt him, and he has to go back to deal with it.

I mean, it'd be pretty anticlimactic if the end of the show was like "then Breaking Bad happened, and Saul spent the rest of his life managing a Cinnabon. The End."