Better Call Saul

[rico]

As I am sure many of y'all already know, a spinoff of "Breaking Bad" titled "Better Call Saul" will be airing in 2014. This is going to be a prequel to Breaking Bad and will be based on the character of Saul Goodman from "Breaking Bad."

I, for one, will be watching. I'm sure the majority of all of you other "Breaking Bad" fans will be as well. Might as well get the discussion going sooner rather than later.

So... what are your hopes, expectations and/or concerns with the show? Here are some of mine:

Hopes: I hope to see Saul do his thing in the courtroom. I hope to see strong, unique supporting characters. I hope to see Breaking Bad foreshadowing. I hope he has an intriguing paralegal and/or assistant. I hope to see Breaking Bad characters such as Fring, Mike, etc...whoever. I hope the show kicks ass.

Expectations: I don't expect it to be as good as "Breaking Bad" (because nothing else is, really), but I expect it to be good since Vince Gilligan is writing. I somewhat expect it to have an even balance of comedy and drama...since Saul undeniably provides a substantial amount of comedic relief in "Breaking Bad." I expect to see "courtroom Saul." I expect the "Breaking Bad" references and character cameos to be less than what I hope. If it isn't even a fraction as good as "Breaking Bad," I expect it to be better than 95% of everything else on TV, since there is some shitty shit on TV these days.

Concerns: I'd be a liar if I were to say that I didn't think this show has potential of flopping and certainly failing to meet the presumed high expectations of the audience. Don't get me wrong, I think it will be good... but I think it COULD suck if not executed properly. My main concern is Saul ultimately proving himself to be a "little dab will do ya" type of character, which would lead to a show centered around his character not working out. I am hoping that the character of Saul will not be so over-used and constantly over the top, that he becomes annoying to me, thus ruining his character for me altogether... Not saying I think this will be how it goes down...just saying I think there is a CHANCE of this being the case, which prompts me to believe that a strong supporting cast is VITAL in terms of the amount of success/quality this show will accumulate. All in all, I don't think VG will steer us in an unfortunate direction though...I think they'll pull it off.

Thoughts?

DISCUS!!!!

[Baby Lee]

Originally Posted by MahiMike

I dunno. She'll get her money and the girls will like her again.

Yeah, I'm not sure people appreciate how fine a line they made Jimmy's transgression here. The way they dramatized it provoked strong emotional response, but he was fomenting something that was likely subconscious for many of the group anyway. Or, to his mind, the others were entitled to a moment of disappointment in Irene, but were lulled into complacency because they weren't aware of how her decisions were affecting their standard of living.

For me, the biggest transgression wasn't the whispering in her ear, or the BINGO manipulation, but the lie that the shoes he gave her were shoes she bought with her comfort and wealth.

In a 'better' world, Irene and her friends would have been in open and honest discourse all along about the progress of the class action. And perhaps her friends would have prevailed upon her to settle against counsel's wishes on their collective own long before Jimmy saw the need to meddle.

But as underhanded his methods were, Jimmy saw an unfair situation that is inherent in class action litigation. And certainly his motive for intervening was entirely self-serving. But in the end, his original clients are happy and came to a mutual decision that benefits them all monetarily, and that kind of solution can salve a number of retirement home intramural squabbles and quibbles. The losers in the long run are Davis and Main, 'robbed' of an opportunity for a bigger payday by playing the waiting game with the fortunes of an elderly class of plaintiffs.

[Skyy God]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

TEAM CHUCK!!!

Jimmy isn't a good dude. He isn't turning into Saul - he's always been Saul. He's just spent a few years wearing a Jimmy mask...

Spoken like a true defense attorney.

[Skyy God]

Originally Posted by eDave

Well I'll say it. I think he would have been better in this role. I can definitely see it.

Taking nothing away from McKeon's performance.

Disagree. Ed doesn't have Chuck's malevolence in him.

[Baby Lee]

Originally Posted by eDave

Well I'll say it. I think he would have been better in this role. I can definitely see it.

Taking nothing away from McKeon's performance.

[notorious]

Originally Posted by MahiMike

I was sure she was going to wreck watching that scene. They just spent too much time in the car with her. I really thought she was gonna die in the wreck. Ironic that on Jimmy's highest day, his gf would die...

I could see it coming too. I thought she would die, though.

[BucEyedPea]

Originally Posted by MahiMike

I was sure she was going to wreck watching that scene. They just spent too much time in the car with her. I really thought she was gonna die in the wreck. Ironic that on Jimmy's highest day, his gf would die...

She died? She got out of the car. She didn't look dead to me.

[notorious]

"I really thought....."

[Baby Lee]

Originally Posted by notorious

"I really thought....."

I think the ambiguity arises when Mahi points out the irony.

ie, 'I thought she would die, ironic that . . . ' Does he mean he thought if it happened, it would be ironic, or that it happened and was ironic?

[notorious]

Originally Posted by Baby Lee

I think the ambiguity arises when Mahi points out the irony.

ie, 'I thought she would die, ironic that . . . ' Does he mean he thought if it happened, it would be ironic, or that it happened and was ironic?

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by Baby Lee

Yeah, I'm not sure people appreciate how fine a line they made Jimmy's transgression here. The way they dramatized it provoked strong emotional response, but he was fomenting something that was likely subconscious for many of the group anyway. Or, to his mind, the others were entitled to a moment of disappointment in Irene, but were lulled into complacency because they weren't aware of how her decisions were affecting their standard of living.

For me, the biggest transgression wasn't the whispering in her ear, or the BINGO manipulation, but the lie that the shoes he gave her were shoes she bought with her comfort and wealth.

In a 'better' world, Irene and her friends would have been in open and honest discourse all along about the progress of the class action. And perhaps her friends would have prevailed upon her to settle against counsel's wishes on their collective own long before Jimmy saw the need to meddle.

But as underhanded his methods were, Jimmy saw an unfair situation that is inherent in class action litigation. And certainly his motive for intervening was entirely self-serving. But in the end, his original clients are happy and came to a mutual decision that benefits them all monetarily, and that kind of solution can salve a number of retirement home intramural squabbles and quibbles. The losers in the long run are Davis and Main, 'robbed' of an opportunity for a bigger payday by playing the waiting game with the fortunes of an elderly class of plaintiffs.

Hey, to make a good omelet you gotta crack a few eggs, right?

And if you make an 85 yr old woman a pariah in her community, then really, the ends justify the means, amiright!?!

Uh...no. Jimmy is an asshole and a conman. He's ALWAYS been an asshole and a conman but when he's comfortable, he's also lazy enough that he'll coast. Every single time he's found himself in a tight spot, he's resorted to criminal and malevolent actions.

He "recognized an injustice within the system..."? Huh? Every attorney - literally every single one - knows that class action suits are a crock of shit. He didn't recognize anything that everyone in that community doesn't already know. Oh, and when he was PUTTING SAID CLASS TOGETHER it didn't seem to bother him much. It was only when he saw a way out of his financial bind that suddenly he cared.

Except that he didn't. He had a line and he sold it to a group of unsophisticated clients. He's not a 'whore with a heart of gold' trope here. He's just a shyster with a lazy streak. And when he can coast, he will. When he can't, he'll pretty much run roughshod over anyone he can (and the weaker the better; he's not exactly taking on well situated opponents most of the time).

#Chuckstrong!

[notorious]

Hamlin has been right about Jimmy and Chuck the whole time.


As strange as this sounds, he is the Hank in this show. Kim might be, but even she pulled cons with Jimmy in the past.

[Skyy God]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

Hey, to make a good omelet you gotta crack a few eggs, right?

And if you make an 85 yr old woman a pariah in her community, then really, the ends justify the means, amiright!?!

Uh...no. Jimmy is an asshole and a conman. He's ALWAYS been an asshole and a conman but when he's comfortable, he's also lazy enough that he'll coast. Every single time he's found himself in a tight spot, he's resorted to criminal and malevolent actions.

He "recognized an injustice within the system..."? Huh? Every attorney - literally every single one - knows that class action suits are a crock of shit. He didn't recognize anything that everyone in that community doesn't already know. Oh, and when he was PUTTING SAID CLASS TOGETHER it didn't seem to bother him much. It was only when he saw a way out of his financial bind that suddenly he cared.

Except that he didn't. He had a line and he sold it to a group of unsophisticated clients. He's not a 'whore with a heart of gold' trope here. He's just a shyster with a lazy streak. And when he can coast, he will. When he can't, he'll pretty much run roughshod over anyone he can (and the weaker the better; he's not exactly taking on well situated opponents most of the time).

#Chuckstrong!

Some class actions are valid. Maybe not half, but it's not zero.

Also, Chuck is a consummate smartest guy in the room prick attorney, but with a (well justified) malevolent streak towards Jimmy. And he's proven to be an "ends justify the means" guy as well.

That imalpractice insurer meeting showed a healthy Chuck for who is is, a real asshole's asshole.

Neither are simpathetuc characters.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by Cave Johnson

Some class actions are valid. Maybe not half, but it's not zero.

Also, Chuck is a consummate smartest guy in the room prick attorney, but with a (well justified) malevolent streak towards Jimmy. And he's proven to be an "ends justify the means" guy as well.

That imalpractice insurer meeting showed a healthy Chuck for who is is, a real asshole's asshole.

Neither are simpathetuc characters.

Most class actions have a valid enough purpose, but you have to acknowledge that the purpose is never to fully compensate the injured parties. Class actions are more about punishing offenders than making the offended whole.

And in the process, the lawyers get wealthy. That's pretty much always the nature of class action suits. Jimmy didn't have some come to jesus, Eureka! moment. He knew what these were and he had an opening to use the same old saw that lawyers have been using against the very concept of the class action since their inception.

And ultimately you're right - Chuck isn't much of a sympathetic figure either. But as the founding member of TeamChuck, I'm gonna keep playing devil's advocate on his behalf (or at least poking away at Jimmy a bit, not unlike Jimmy's meeting with the malpractice carriers).

And, in Chuck's defense, apart from being crazy, there's an excellent chance that in any room he's in, he IS the smartest guy in the room.

[Pitt Gorilla]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

Hey, to make a good omelet you gotta crack a few eggs, right?

And if you make an 85 yr old woman a pariah in her community, then really, the ends justify the means, amiright!?!

Uh...no. Jimmy is an asshole and a conman. He's ALWAYS been an asshole and a conman but when he's comfortable, he's also lazy enough that he'll coast. Every single time he's found himself in a tight spot, he's resorted to criminal and malevolent actions.

He "recognized an injustice within the system..."? Huh? Every attorney - literally every single one - knows that class action suits are a crock of shit. He didn't recognize anything that everyone in that community doesn't already know. Oh, and when he was PUTTING SAID CLASS TOGETHER it didn't seem to bother him much. It was only when he saw a way out of his financial bind that suddenly he cared.

Except that he didn't. He had a line and he sold it to a group of unsophisticated clients. He's not a 'whore with a heart of gold' trope here. He's just a shyster with a lazy streak. And when he can coast, he will. When he can't, he'll pretty much run roughshod over anyone he can (and the weaker the better; he's not exactly taking on well situated opponents most of the time).

#Chuckstrong!

I don't understand your need for a "team." I prefer Jimmy the character, but I can recognize that both have their well-documented flaws.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by Pitt Gorilla

I don't understand your need for a "team." I prefer Jimmy the character, but I can recognize that both have their well-documented flaws.

Because it's the discussion of a fictional character that was an ancillary part of a series that's been off the air for 5 years on a football message board. We ain't curing cancer here.

I find it more interesting this way. It's nuanced trolling. Otherwise I'd find the conversation a little repetitive. Afterall, we know where this is going and have known since day 1.