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Old 01-08-2019, 03:51 PM  
Cosmos Cosmos is online now
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Paul Manafort shared 2016 polling data with Russian

Manafort giving Russians American Polling Data....pathetic and criminal.

Happens all the time, right? Trump barely knew him, right?


“Paul Manafort shared 2016 presidential campaign polling data with Konstantin Kilimnik, an associate the FBI has said has ties to Russian intelligence, according to a court filing.

The information is in a filing that appears to inadvertently include details not intended to be made public and indicates a pathway by which the Russians could have had access to Trump campaign data.”

https://www.washingtonpost.com/local...=.fd0fc5247c49
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Old 01-09-2019, 11:26 AM   #61
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Originally Posted by lawrenceRaider View Post
Point out the actual collusion. You know, where promise made for this result/advantage for Trump in his election battle with Hillary.
Sure. Both Lyin' Junior and Papajohnpapolus thought they were going to get dirt on Clinton from the Russians.
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Old 01-09-2019, 11:51 AM   #62
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Originally Posted by Donger View Post
It is neat to see the progression from "NO COLLUSION! RUSSIAN HOAX!" to "So what!?"
If by 'neat' you mean 'the most predictable thing ever.

And really it's gone from

1) lol this will all amount to nothing
2) sure you've found lots of other crimes but those don't count because they aren't this one specific crime
3) um collusion is fine yo
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Old 01-09-2019, 01:04 PM   #63
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Originally Posted by Donger View Post
It is neat to see the progression from "NO COLLUSION! RUSSIAN HOAX!" to "So what!?"
There is no progression. You start from a faulty definition of collusion, so it just seems that way to you (even though it’s been explained to you before).
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Old 01-09-2019, 01:19 PM   #64
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Originally Posted by patteeu View Post
There is no progression. You start from a faulty definition of collusion, so it just seems that way to you (even though it’s been explained to you before).
I used NO COLLUSION because that is what Trumpers and the media use, for whatever reason. Feel free to substitute NO COORDINATION! if you wish.
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Old 01-09-2019, 02:05 PM   #65
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Oh look. Someone watched Rachel Madcow last night.
Guess it was you, if you recognize the content.
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Old 01-09-2019, 02:15 PM   #66
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Originally Posted by Pogue View Post
What about when Obama said he’ll have more flexibility after the election?
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Old 01-09-2019, 02:18 PM   #67
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Originally Posted by stumppy View Post
It's got to where the trumptards only consider it collusion and/or coordination if there were body fluids exchanged at some point.
Doubtful. They'd say it was consensual.
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Old 01-09-2019, 02:25 PM   #68
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First not sure who if anyone is defending Manafort. Trump fired him because he looked shady. No one argued that he did not commit numerous felonies.

Second, nothing in the filing indicated that the Trump campaign knew about any of this.

Third there are no dates given as to when this meeting took place and the actual data provided. Your assuming that it involved Hillary which is doubtful. Manafort was only involved with the campaign for 5 months. 4 of the 5 months of his involvement was with the convention and primary battle with Cruz. I seem to think it is unlikely that he flew out right after the convention and had this meeting and had accurate polling data to target Hillary months after he left he campaign.
I don't care if it's Hillary or Cruz. Using a foreign power to target political adversaries with misinformation campaigns is a problem that a presidential candidate shouldn't be involved in.

People keep wanting to say that we don't know Trump was involved. We do know that the platform was changed to favorably help the Russians. We do know that Trump talked about having a special news conference where they were going to go through all the Clinton dirt and the timing of that coincided with the Trump tower meeting. We know they were still communicating with Manafort even after the election as he was providing names for people to consider for top positions. We heard how the Kremlin had put the kibosh on Romney as Secretary of State. We know one of Trump's first things he talked about upon getting into office was to try and remove Russian sanctions. We know during the transition they were trying to open a secret back channel outside of the govt to communicate with Kremlin. There are plenty more examples and I'm sure a ton that we don't know yet either.

There is a point where the circumstantial evidence stacks so high that it becomes nearly impossible to deny what happened.
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Old 01-09-2019, 02:26 PM   #69
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Oh look. Someone watched Rachel Madcow last night.
I didn't actually. Why, was it any good?
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Old 01-09-2019, 02:39 PM   #70
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Originally Posted by Shaid View Post
I don't care if it's Hillary or Cruz. Using a foreign power to target political adversaries with misinformation campaigns is a problem that a presidential candidate shouldn't be involved in.

People keep wanting to say that we don't know Trump was involved. We do know that the platform was changed to favorably help the Russians. We do know that Trump talked about having a special news conference where they were going to go through all the Clinton dirt and the timing of that coincided with the Trump tower meeting. We know they were still communicating with Manafort even after the election as he was providing names for people to consider for top positions. We heard how the Kremlin had put the kibosh on Romney as Secretary of State. We know one of Trump's first things he talked about upon getting into office was to try and remove Russian sanctions. We know during the transition they were trying to open a secret back channel outside of the govt to communicate with Kremlin. There are plenty more examples and I'm sure a ton that we don't know yet either.

There is a point where the circumstantial evidence stacks so high that it becomes nearly impossible to deny what happened.
Agree that the presidential candidate should not be involved in using foreign governments to target political adversaries with misinformation. But your jumping to a lot of conclusions.

The platform was changed to basically follow Obama's and the Dems policy at the time. It was not anymore helpful then what O was currently doing.


So getting dirt on Clinton, dirt that would indicate she is unfit for office and compromised by the Russians is bad? What the hell do you think Hillary hired the law firm for? Who do you think the dossier memos came from? It was not Americans living in Russia it was supposedly high ranking "Russian" officials.

LOL yeah Romney was going to be the SOS.

So they had to open a back channel, seems to indicate they already did not have one. I have no problems with him talking to the Russians about what would happen with his foreign policy. Obama and his officials were trying very hard to tie his hands. This after Obama's Russian reset, mocking Romney for thinking the cold war was on etc. Trump has been a lot tougher on Russia then Obama had ever been.

Last edited by Shields68; 01-09-2019 at 02:45 PM..
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Old 01-09-2019, 02:58 PM   #71
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Originally Posted by Shaid View Post
I don't care if it's Hillary or Cruz. Using a foreign power to target political adversaries with misinformation campaigns is a problem that a presidential candidate shouldn't be involved in.

People keep wanting to say that we don't know Trump was involved. We do know that the platform was changed to favorably help the Russians. We do know that Trump talked about having a special news conference where they were going to go through all the Clinton dirt and the timing of that coincided with the Trump tower meeting. We know they were still communicating with Manafort even after the election as he was providing names for people to consider for top positions. We heard how the Kremlin had put the kibosh on Romney as Secretary of State. We know one of Trump's first things he talked about upon getting into office was to try and remove Russian sanctions. We know during the transition they were trying to open a secret back channel outside of the govt to communicate with Kremlin. There are plenty more examples and I'm sure a ton that we don't know yet either.

There is a point where the circumstantial evidence stacks so high that it becomes nearly impossible to deny what happened.
All of those things are consistent with a candidate who wants to improve relations with Russia, which is what Trump campaigned on.
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Old 01-09-2019, 03:11 PM   #72
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I don't care if it's Hillary or Cruz. Using a foreign power to target political adversaries with misinformation campaigns is a problem that a presidential candidate shouldn't be involved in.
The fact it is Cruz or Hillary matters in that, to my knowledge, the Russians did not target Cruz. What I remember being reported the bots tried to help Bernie, promoted BLM (and other groups causing unrest) and then tried to help Trump.
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Old 01-09-2019, 04:05 PM   #73
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Originally Posted by Shields68 View Post
Agree that the presidential candidate should not be involved in using foreign governments to target political adversaries with misinformation. But your jumping to a lot of conclusions.

The platform was changed to basically follow Obama's and the Dems policy at the time. It was not anymore helpful then what O was currently doing.


So getting dirt on Clinton, dirt that would indicate she is unfit for office and compromised by the Russians is bad? What the hell do you think Hillary hired the law firm for? Who do you think the dossier memos came from? It was not Americans living in Russia it was supposedly high ranking "Russian" officials.

LOL yeah Romney was going to be the SOS.

So they had to open a back channel, seems to indicate they already did not have one. I have no problems with him talking to the Russians about what would happen with his foreign policy. Obama and his officials were trying very hard to tie his hands. This after Obama's Russian reset, mocking Romney for thinking the cold war was on etc. Trump has been a lot tougher on Russia then Obama had ever been.
The only change the Trump campaign advocated for was in regards to Russia. That's an interesting coincidence. The news conference that Trump announced they were going to have on Russian dirt on Clinton didn't happen. It was announced before the Trump tower meeting, then the meeting happened, they didn't get the dirt they wanted, and noone mentioned the new conference again. Seems like Trump knew they were meeting with these Russians for Clinton dirt doesn't it? Interesting that they deny it he knew anything about it. Almost like they are lying to hide something.

Yeah, Mitt Romney was widely reported as the front runner for SOS.
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/mitt-ro...top-contender/

So let me ask you, why would you want to open a back channel to the Kremlin that was outside of the govt? How does that make any sense for the president to want to prevent his own government from being involved? It makes sense if there are illegal things that happened and you need to be able to discuss it without people knowing about it. Your first order of business being removing govt sanctions when you just were presented with proof of their election meddling makes sense?

I don't really think I'm jumping to conclusions. It think it's obvious what happened. Granted, I'm still not calling for impeachment as I still want to see the full info and unless it's ironclad, I don't think you remove a president from office. However, I think the info looks solid enough that reasonable people could tell he was involved and had knowledge of what was happening.
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Old 01-09-2019, 04:33 PM   #74
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So let me ask you, why would you want to open a back channel to the Kremlin that was outside of the govt? How does that make any sense for the president to want to prevent his own government from being involved? It makes sense if there are illegal things that happened and you need to be able to discuss it without people knowing about it.
It makes sense if you think the Obama administration is spying on you and/or trying to undermine you, both of which were happening.
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Old 01-09-2019, 04:37 PM   #75
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It makes sense if you think the Obama administration is spying on you and/or trying to undermine you, both of which were happening.
Manafort did this before the Trump campaign became aware of the Obama administration's "spying."
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