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Old 12-05-2022, 07:38 AM   Topic Starter
Chris Meck Chris Meck is offline
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Jones...keep or get a haul?
I'm just going to put this here.

But I see a lot of parallels to the Hill situation. Unquestionably elite player surrounded by JAGs. Potential huge haul in draft capital as well as salary cap relief.

Jones plus whatever dudes isn't getting it done. We won't be drafting in position to properly re-stock LT or DE if we keep him, and we can't afford top of the market replacements.

Maybe we should move him. What kind of haul do you think we could get?
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Old 12-05-2022, 07:57 AM   #2
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Starting to think maybe this is the route you go, only if Jones pulls a Tyreek and expects to reset the market. If he wants to be here and takes a team friendly deal, then you have to keep him.

If he wants $30 million a year, zero chance I'm giving him that.
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Old 12-05-2022, 08:12 AM   #3
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The Hill situation was different in that you had Pat and Andy and were able to absorb that.

You aint' got a Mahomes buffer on D. You need better players around him, not to move him.
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Old 12-05-2022, 08:48 AM   #4
Chris Meck Chris Meck is offline
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The Hill situation was different in that you had Pat and Andy and were able to absorb that.

You aint' got a Mahomes buffer on D. You need better players around him, not to move him.
I agree entirely EXCEPT the fact that keeping him may make that impossible in terms of draft capital/position and cap space.

We might be able to get THREE plus players (high pick, one plus starting vet, one aging but still useful guy) for what Jones costs to keep.

I don't know, and I haven't come to any firm conclusions, just thought it was an interesting question.
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Old 12-05-2022, 08:59 AM   #5
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The reason it's Jones and JAGS is that in an off-season where we acknowledged the DL was an enormous problem, we took half-assed efforts at addressing it.

It's easier to upgrade the JAGS than it is to replace Chris Jones.
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Old 12-05-2022, 09:06 AM   #6
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The reason it's Jones and JAGS is that in an off-season where we acknowledged the DL was an enormous problem, we took half-assed efforts at addressing it.

It's easier to upgrade the JAGS than it is to replace Chris Jones.
Is it though?

Because upgrading the JAGS in a significant manner means a mid to high first round pick, or a LOT of money in free agency. We have neither.

I'm not necessarily saying we should move him; but I'm not sure we can significantly improve because of available draft capital and cap resources.

I love Jones, I think he's great. But does what it takes to keep him preclude us from getting the better players we need?

It's like with Hill. We had Hill and a bunch of JAGS. We're better with a better GROUP. Maybe it's the same thing with Jones and the DL. He should be a force multiplier, but he's really not.
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Old 12-05-2022, 09:16 AM   #7
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Is it though?

Because upgrading the JAGS in a significant manner means a mid to high first round pick, or a LOT of money in free agency. We have neither.

I'm not necessarily saying we should move him; but I'm not sure we can significantly improve because of available draft capital and cap resources.

I love Jones, I think he's great. But does what it takes to keep him preclude us from getting the better players we need?

It's like with Hill. We had Hill and a bunch of JAGS. We're better with a better GROUP. Maybe it's the same thing with Jones and the DL. He should be a force multiplier, but he's really not.
He is a force multiplier, but the force he's multiplying is like 1.1.

Multiply it by 4 and you're still only at 4.4.

Now change the N to even 1.5 and even if your force multiplier is only by 3, you're still at 4.5.

In any given week he's starting alongside 3 bench/rotational players. He doesn't have a single starting caliber player on that DL with him. And maybe you're right - maybe we have a blind spot in our scouting that will prevent us from getting 1 or 2 of those at a reasonable investment. So maybe we do need to move him.

But I'd like to at least TRY to build around him first. We him for another year and could potentially tag/trade him after the season. I just hate how little effort we put into improving the talent around him.
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Old 12-05-2022, 09:18 AM   #8
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While I am pro-Veach, I do not believe he has earned the trust necessary to replace even 75% of Jones' value on the Defensive Line. If there is anything he has struggled with since becoming GM, it's finding singular, game-changing playmakers on either side of the ball.

I do think he's been fantastic at finding plug and play, consistent glue guys to fill out a roster, especially in the back end of the draft. This is just as, if not more important. Consider him the Anti-Carl in that way.
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Old 12-05-2022, 09:20 AM   #9
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For him to be a force multiplier, you need other guys around him that are making somewhat of an impact.

Look at Parsons in Dallas. They've got Lawrence, Williams, etc.

Bosa in SF etc.

The issue isn't Jones. It's that they didn't do enough to put guys around him and then the Frank Clark "illness" anchor.
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Old 12-05-2022, 09:30 AM   #10
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I like Karlaftis but it’s pretty clear we should have drafted Sam Williams. You could make an argument that we should have drafted both, but I would raise you Juan Thronhill’s absolutely terrible tackling which lead to them drafting Bryan Cook
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Old 12-05-2022, 09:33 AM   #11
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I like Karlaftis but it’s pretty clear we should have drafted Sam Williams. You could make an argument that we should have drafted both, but I would raise you Juan Thronhill’s absolutely terrible tackling which lead to them drafting Bryan Cook
Reid can't tackle worth a shit either.
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Old 12-05-2022, 10:16 AM   #12
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I like Karlaftis but it’s pretty clear we should have drafted Sam Williams. You could make an argument that we should have drafted both, but I would raise you Juan Thronhill’s absolutely terrible tackling which lead to them drafting Bryan Cook
Let's keep repeating this over and over. I'm sure it will ****ing help.
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Old 12-05-2022, 10:03 AM   #13
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At least Reid tries to make tackles. Juan is just plain scared out there
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Old 12-05-2022, 10:18 AM   #14
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At least Reid tries to make tackles. Juan is just plain scared out there
How about actually make them?
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Old 12-05-2022, 01:34 PM   #15
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How about actually make them?
Juan Thornhill is terrified of tackling good players. The guy ****ing stopped running and it cost him the tackle. He was scared. Bottom line.

And people wonder why we drafted Bryan Cook

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