Craig Stout: Chris Jones has been lining up at DE a TON at OTAs.

[Direckshun]

It will be interesting to see how this plays out.

Honestly, I’d rather keep him along the interior where he is elite. But Stout mentioned that the base DL is Jones and Clark on the edges with Reed and Nnadi along the interior.

That’s a big risk the team is taking, and the early returns in spot duty last year were not encouraging.

But Stout mentions that Jones has slimmed down a ton as well, clearly prepared to take a stronger role at RDE.

Maybe the most important thing to watch for our defense.

He also mentions Humphrey is your starting center.

[Direckshun]

Originally Posted by Halfcan

Reggie White?

Was Reggie White an elite DT for years? Serious question.

He was right on the cusp of Before My Time and I remember him being an unstoppable wrecking ball at DE.

Was he an unstoppable wrecking ball at DT first?

[staylor26]

Chris Jones played 3-4 DE to start his career. He will likely be playing a similar role when playing DE on early downs. He’s not moving to DE full time, and will still be playing inside on passing downs. They’ve also said whether he plays there at all and how often will be dependent on the matchup.

How many times does this have to be explained?

[Direckshun]

Originally Posted by staylor26

Chris Jones played 3-4 DE to start his career. He will likely be playing a similar role when playing DE on early downs. He’s not moving to DE full time, and will still be playing inside on passing downs. They’ve also said whether he plays there at all and how often will be dependent on the matchup.

How many times does this have to be explained?

I suspect he will actually be used similarly to how he was used in the Titans game from 2019.

Edited to clarify: the regular season Titans game.

[RaidersOftheCellar]

Originally Posted by Direckshun

Honest question: do we have a precedent in NFL history for a dominant, Top 3 DT who went on to become even a merely really good DE?

They’re just working him in to create mismatches in certain situations. It’s no different than how Donald is used.

[Direckshun]

Originally Posted by RaidersOftheCellar

They’re just working him in to create mismatches in certain situations. It’s no different than how Donald is used.

We won't know until the games are played and the snaps can be analyzed, but it sounds like he's going to be on the edge at least part time. Not a Donald arrangement.

[Chris Meck]

I've been saying this for the last couple of years, but it bears repeating.

People are WAY too hung up on positions and what they think are 'prototypes' for those positions.

When Spags ruined Brady and Co.'s perfect season in that super bowl, he moved everyone on the line around all over the place.

In the same way that Matthieu is not really a 'safety', neither does it matter what you want to call Chris Jones when he's not lined up as a typical DT.

Just like we don't really utilize a prototypical slot receiver on offense.

Doesn't matter.

It's about putting guys with unique talents in position to use those abilities.

Don't worry about it. These guys know what they're doing.

[Direckshun]

Originally Posted by Chris Meck

I've been saying this for the last couple of years, but it bears repeating.

People are WAY too hung up on positions and what they think are 'prototypes' for those positions.

When Spags ruined Brady and Co.'s perfect season in that super bowl, he moved everyone on the line around all over the place.

In the same way that Matthieu is not really a 'safety', neither does it matter what you want to call Chris Jones when he's not lined up as a typical DT.

Just like we don't really utilize a prototypical slot receiver on offense.

Doesn't matter.

It's about putting guys with unique talents in position to use those abilities.

Don't worry about it. These guys know what they're doing.

He's been here for two seasons. I think the best thing to compare Spags' incoming 2021 defense is the 2019 and 2020 seasons.

And in those seasons, the guys have generally not been cogs you could move around however you want.

It was in 2019, when you'd see a lot of Kpass as a DT in obvious rushing situations so that Spags could get a NASCAR package going. But Jones never played outside, and Clark never played inside. Really they only flexed Kpass and Ogbah.

I've watched a ton of 2020 film the past month and a half, and 2020 was different. Spags still had his NASCAR package, but it was structured different.

In 2019, Spags liked three DEs and Jones. Almost always Kpass as the DT rotating down.

But in 2020, we had the Turk Wharton discovery, and Spags' NASCAR package was usually two DEs and two DTs (almost always Jones and Wharton), almost every time, if you don't count the myriad of blitzes he put together.

The vast majority of time he put together that NASCAR DL, it was with the DTs in the middle and the DEs out wide. Though he did shift it around occasionally.

That's not what we're talking about here, so don't pretend this is Business As Usual. This is (likely) not 2020 Chris Jones, who is a DT who is only a DE once in a blue moon in NASCAR packages. This is also likely not 2016-2018 Chris Jones, who was a 3-4 DE full time.

This is (likely) Chris Jones playing a chunk of his snaps as a legit 4-3 base DE.

[RealSNR]

Direckshun, can you tell me why you think this plan the Chiefs have for Jones isn't going to work out?

The dude had consecutive years of double digit sacks as a 3-4 end. As a 4-3 end, he's just getting moved over one ****ing gap. Big whoop. Yeah, for some guys that's a big deal. It would be stupid for the Chiefs to ask that out of Derrick Nnadi. But when you're big and athletic and you've basically for all intents and purposes DONE THAT JOB for the first three seasons of your career, that's not a monumental task.

This isn't OL. We're not asking a G to move over and play OT. We're taking a player who has a track record of mauling shit while lined up in a variety of positions and telling him to go blow more shit up.

It has a good chance of working out. And if it doesn't? Well shit, Chris Jones will surely never be able to move back to the interior! At least not until he has a full offseason of work at that position!

[Chris Meck]

Originally Posted by Direckshun

This is (likely) Chris Jones playing a chunk of his snaps as a legit 4-3 base DE.

Again, you're hung up on your concept of position and prototypes.

You're exactly who I'm talking about.

Wharton's still here. Now Reed is here. And so is Jones.

So yeah, you'll see a chunk of snaps with those three and Clark. Why is this a problem for you? Why isn't it simply a way of getting your best players on the field at the same time?

legit 4-3 base DE? We're in a base 4-3 like a third of the time. We're usually in a heavy nickel type or dime defense with like 4 safeties. I think you're looking at things through an outdated conventional lens when that's not really how this team operates (or really, the NFL in 2021, but KC is certainly on the front edge of innovation I think we'd all have to agree-particularly on offense.)

Kpass was like 290 lbs, huge for a 4-3 DE, so yeah they moved him inside some on passing downs. Why is this like...groundbreaking news for you?

Obviously, they've liked the positional flexibility of having Jones be able to play inside and outside.

Is this just another thing with you, like not liking Veach's tier system?

Because it seems like it.

I think these guys have shown me that 1)they know more about football than I do, 2) They've earned the right to implement their plans before I'm going to criticize and 3) They are constantly innovating from the front office on down and nobody really knows what they're going to do, so wringing our hands about stuff in March, and May, and June when we have no real idea what they're going to do is silly.

[Chris Meck]

Originally Posted by RealSNR

Direckshun, can you tell me why you think this plan the Chiefs have for Jones isn't going to work out?

The dude had consecutive years of double digit sacks as a 3-4 end. As a 4-3 end, he's just getting moved over one ****ing gap. Big whoop. Yeah, for some guys that's a big deal. It would be stupid for the Chiefs to ask that out of Derrick Nnadi. But when you're big and athletic and you've basically for all intents and purposes DONE THAT JOB for the first three seasons of your career, that's not a monumental task.

This isn't OL. We're not asking a G to move over and play OT. We're taking a player who has a track record of mauling shit while lined up in a variety of positions and telling him to go blow more shit up.

It has a good chance of working out. And if it doesn't? Well shit, Chris Jones will surely never be able to move back to the interior! At least not until he has a full offseason of work at that position!

Yeah man, I've been really trying not get irritated but it seems like yet another terrible football take.

Positional flexibility is a GOOD THING.

It's what makes Mathieu valuable, for instance.

Chess pieces that you can move around to take advantage of match-ups are a GOOD THING to have.

I see this as a way to get our best D-linemen on the field at the same time. I really don't see the problem.

[Dunerdr]

Originally Posted by CasselGotPeedOn

Chiefs are planning to use DT Chris Jones as an edge rusher at times this season. That’s going to be a legitimate problem for tackles.

— Jay Glazer (@JayGlazer) June 15, 2021

He knew this last year, he just chose not to say anything.

[O.city]

Originally Posted by RealSNR

Direckshun, can you tell me why you think this plan the Chiefs have for Jones isn't going to work out?

The dude had consecutive years of double digit sacks as a 3-4 end. As a 4-3 end, he's just getting moved over one ****ing gap. Big whoop. Yeah, for some guys that's a big deal. It would be stupid for the Chiefs to ask that out of Derrick Nnadi. But when you're big and athletic and you've basically for all intents and purposes DONE THAT JOB for the first three seasons of your career, that's not a monumental task.

This isn't OL. We're not asking a G to move over and play OT. We're taking a player who has a track record of mauling shit while lined up in a variety of positions and telling him to go blow more shit up.

It has a good chance of working out. And if it doesn't? Well shit, Chris Jones will surely never be able to move back to the interior! At least not until he has a full offseason of work at that position!

He just wrecks so much shit inside I'd rather him do that and get someone telse to do it outside. But hopefully he continues to do it outside.

[duncan_idaho]

Think about how much trouble a Bull rushing Chris Jones is going to give basically every RT in football. He’s going to threaten the inside shoulder when aligned at RT so well. And he’s quick enough to get around the edge if they over shade inside.

Sets you up for a lot of success with stunts and blitzes behind him.

It’s not an every spot/team thing. But Wharton and Nnadi are better than almost all second true DE options KC has right now. It makes to flex Jobes. He’s still a threat and still sets up advantages for teammates.

The run D will be better with Nnadi and Reed inside most downs. And a pass rush of Clark/Jones/Reed/Charlton still looks pretty salty to me (or even a 3-3-5 or 3-2-6 alignment with Gay or Bolton as a blitzer and no Charlton.

[RunKC]

Originally Posted by duncan_idaho

Think about how much trouble a Bull rushing Chris Jones is going to give basically every RT in football. He’s going to threaten the inside shoulder when aligned at RT so well. And he’s quick enough to get around the edge if they over shade inside.

Sets you up for a lot of success with stunts and blitzes behind him.

It’s not an every spot/team thing. But Wharton and Nnadi are better than almost all second true DE options KC has right now. It makes to flex Jobes. He’s still a threat and still sets up advantages for teammates.

The run D will be better with Nnadi and Reed inside most downs. And a pass rush of Clark/Jones/Reed/Charlton still looks pretty salty to me (or even a 3-3-5 or 3-2-6 alignment with Gay or Bolton as a blitzer and no Charlton.

Listening to Nate Taylor on the Times Ours Pod, he really made a point to mention that Jarran Reed afforded them the opportunity to really see this through. We didn’t have a true DT with pass rush ability + a big enough frame to run defend. Saunders was the only one outside Jones with that potential last yet but it didn’t happen.

Now that Reed is here, we still keep that strong inside presence and can do a lot of different things.

I don’t think this move is without flaws though. I think we need to be aware of Jones lack of speed on things like the option or contain. Facing a team with an athletic QB like the Ravens and Seahawks makes me not want pull that trigger bc they’ll just run around the guy easily whereas Mike Danna is extremely smart and athletic enough to stop those

[htismaqe]

Originally Posted by Direckshun

Was Reggie White an elite DT for years? Serious question.

He was right on the cusp of Before My Time and I remember him being an unstoppable wrecking ball at DE.

Was he an unstoppable wrecking ball at DT first?

Reggie White played the majority of his time in an odd front or Buddy Ryan's 46, which means as a DE, he was lined up "inside". He wasn't ever an "edge" rusher.