Mad Men

[Reaper16]

Season 4 premiered tonight. I would have bumped the season three thread but I titled it "season 3," which no longer seems appropriate.

Who saw it? It was a stupendous hour of television. All sorts of shit has happened in the eleven months that have passed (in-story) between the formation of Sterling Cooper Draper Price and the beginning of season 4. The premeir was stepped in the juices of the sexual revolution. It also had a lot to say about the increasing role of the media in the success or failure of things. It was great to see Don fail a little bit, and it was exciting to consider the future implications at the end of Don crafting a public/media persona that is completely unlike his actual personality.

[Baby Lee]

As we close this out, one question still burns.

In creating this, do you think Matthew Weiner wrote with optimism or pessimism.

On one hand, Don is the embodiment of the American Dream. There is no depredation [leaving aside for the moment race and sexual orientation] in your upbringing that cannot be overcome with vision and commitment.

On the other, there are the variables that differ from straight white and male that held a number back and on the sidelines of the narrative, and even Don could not escape his memory, and suffered at every turn for it.

[NewChief]

Originally Posted by Baby Lee

As we close this out, one question still burns.

In creating this, do you think Matthew Weiner wrote with optimism or pessimism.

On one hand, Don is the embodiment of the American Dream. There is no depredation [leaving aside for the moment race and sexual orientation] in your upbringing that cannot be overcome with vision and commitment.

On the other, there are the variables that differ from straight white and male that held a number back and on the sidelines of the narrative, and even Don could not escape his memory, and suffered at every turn for it.

That's a good question. While this isn't really an answer, I think the overriding feeling I get for it is of nostalgia. And while in many ways that America wasn't really the "good old America" there's still an underlying pining for a lost era that can no longer be. Don, throughout, is the relic from the past who refuses to change even as the world passes him by. The swallowing of their firm by the behemoth is the final act in this passing of an era.

Of course, that's a false nostalgia, as scrappy upstarts are more possible now than ever... but it just feels like Weiner is reaching for that.

[Baby Lee]

Originally Posted by NewChief

That's a good question. While this isn't really an answer, I think the overriding feeling I get for it is of nostalgia. And while in many ways that America wasn't really the "good old America" there's still an underlying pining for a lost era that can no longer be. Don, throughout, is the relic from the past who refuses to change even as the world passes him by. The swallowing of their firm by the behemoth is the final act in this passing of an era.

Of course, that's a false nostalgia, as scrappy upstarts are more possible now than ever... but it just feels like Weiner is reaching for that.

Yeah, but also now more than ever scrappy upstarts are slaving feverishly to get their head above the rest of the swamp in order to be eaten by a 21st century McCann [Apple buys another social media app, . . . we're all living for the IPO].

[Demonpenz]

How does Don only have on strong craving of booze. I mean he has to be a pretty bad alcoholic at this point.

[Pitt Gorilla]

Originally Posted by Baby Lee

As we close this out, one question still burns.

In creating this, do you think Matthew Weiner wrote with optimism or pessimism.

On one hand, Don is the embodiment of the American Dream. There is no depredation [leaving aside for the moment race and sexual orientation] in your upbringing that cannot be overcome with vision and commitment.

On the other, there are the variables that differ from straight white and male that held a number back and on the sidelines of the narrative, and even Don could not escape his memory, and suffered at every turn for it.

At least one of the lessons has to be: If you're good enough looking, you can do almost anything.

[Baby Lee]

Originally Posted by Pitt Gorilla

At least one of the lessons has to be: If you're good enough looking, you can do almost anything.

I guess Joan isn't teaching that one.

[Pitt Gorilla]

Originally Posted by Baby Lee

I guess Joan isn't teaching that one.

She became a millionaire partner in an advertising firm due, in large part, to her looks. I'd qualify that as "almost anything."

[Baby Lee]

Originally Posted by Pitt Gorilla

She became a millionaire partner in an advertising firm due, in large part, to her looks. I'd qualify that as "almost anything."

You might want to watch a little closer.

[BucEyedPea]

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud

Last night's episode was well executed but this final season just hasn't been compelling for me.

Now, if Don jumps out his window during the finale, we may have something.

Otherwise, meh.

I just started season 7 on Netflix. Started about a month ago watching multiple episodes in one night. But they don't have all of season 7 and it's going to end this Sunday.
It'll be a year before I can fill in the gap if I am not done by Sunday. I think some are on the AMC site under full episodes though.

I love it. I love watching the creatives in the ad world on Madison Avenue during that time as it so close to my background.

[BucEyedPea]

Originally Posted by Baby Lee

You might want to watch a little closer.

Yep!

Joan has a college education for back then too. Whereas, Peggy started as just a secretary herself.

[BucEyedPea]

Originally Posted by NewChief

That's a good question. While this isn't really an answer, I think the overriding feeling I get for it is of nostalgia. And while in many ways that America wasn't really the "good old America" there's still an underlying pining for a lost era that can no longer be. Don, throughout, is the relic from the past who refuses to change even as the world passes him by. The swallowing of their firm by the behemoth is the final act in this passing of an era.

Of course, that's a false nostalgia, as scrappy upstarts are more possible now than ever... but it just feels like Weiner is reaching for that.

It certainly wasn't most of middle America. I was shocked at all the adultery and drinking while on the job. An ad man age 73 said all that was authentic in the ad world back then. There were even sex contests and raffles for who would have to do who and alcohol in their desk draws. He said it died out in the 80's. It's supposed to be authentic. I never saw it in the late 80's or 90's.

[Brock]

I recently visited a big ad agency in KC. These people are still doing exactly the same things. The tools are obviously different, everybody trying to create viral, totally immersed in pop culture while trying to direct it, big screens all over, millennial versions of Pete and Peggy jabbering with a monster drink in one hand and an xxl phone in the other. Looked like more fun than any of that shit scdp was doing.

[Baby Lee]

Originally Posted by Brock

I recently visited a big ad agency in KC. These people are still doing exactly the same things. The tools are obviously different, everybody trying to create viral, totally immersed in pop culture while trying to direct it, big screens all over, millennial versions of Pete and Peggy jabbering with a monster drink in one hand and an xxl phone in the other. Looked like more fun than any of that shit scdp was doing.

Watch Silicon Valley on HBO, or just the Silicon Valley episode of Veep.

[Brock]

Originally Posted by Baby Lee

Watch Silicon Valley on HBO, or just the Silicon Valley episode of Veep.

That's what it reminded me of. I can remember thinking that for all the crap millennials catch, these were some of the smartest and most optimistic people I had been around in a long time. Made me feel pretty good seeing such industry among the young, even if it was just to sell more Blizzards.

[BucEyedPea]

Originally Posted by Brock

I recently visited a big ad agency in KC. These people are still doing exactly the same things. The tools are obviously different, everybody trying to create viral, totally immersed in pop culture while trying to direct it, big screens all over, millennial versions of Pete and Peggy jabbering with a monster drink in one hand and an xxl phone in the other. Looked like more fun than any of that shit scdp was doing.

I never ever saw anyone working with a drink in their hand on the job including in NY. Drinking was afterwards or when a client came for certain personnel. I remember the Ocean Spray exec had to be taken out and gotten him drunk on purpose because we were behind the deadline. On the other hand there's much accuracy in the series on the ad business side. Such as the account is usually lost after a Clio award is won etc. I was nearly floored when they mentioned Ogilvy never submitted for awards for this reason. I learned that from Ogilvy's book on advertising. And the scene of Young and Rubicon dropping water balloons on black protestors was a true event.