Investing megathread extravaganza

[DaFace]

A place to talk about investing stuff.

[Buehler445]

Originally Posted by philfree

It's just something I have always considered doing. Wondered if I could make any money doing it. And just because I don't know something today doesn't mean I can't learn about it and then know it. Kind of like any business. Definitely need to be dealing with trust worthy people. I'm pretty sure gahk99 is just wanting to rustle my cattle though so I better watch out for him.

It's not like I'd bet the farm on it. It would also be easy for me to just park all my money in the market but I thought I'd think outside the box for different investments. I'm thinking about buying some rental properties too but I don't know everything about that either so maybe I should just go ahead and punt.

Right. Most people don't know what stocks are in the funds in their 401K much less PE ratios, dividends, returns, fees, whatever. And yet people still invest in it.

It's pretty easy to get into cows. All the lots around here are typically customer owned. Most of them will get the cows bought for you and then feed them out for you. It's pretty common.

But it carries some risk. There are opportunities for HUGE losses. A few years ago, I hauled some corn into a feedlot and asked the ops manager how things were going. He said, "Well, our guys went from losing $500/head to $300/head and they think that is pretty alright." And this is like a 35,000 head lot



All I could think to say was they have a different banker than I have.

There are different things you can do to minimize the risk. You can hedge on the board corn, feeders and fats. That way your only risk is death loss or degraded gain rates. Typically there is little to no profit to be had by hedging all of your components. Like I said, a month ago you could hedge in a profit, but it won't be the giant ass gains that you always hear about.

Like I said before, I wouldn't do it with any money you ever intend to see again, but there can be money made with them.

All that being said, I've never done it. Dad has a few times, but I have not.
If you want the number to any local feedlots, let me know. I can get you guys that know what the hell they're doing and can explain the process better than I can. Or you can talk to ghak and buy a couple head to get your feet wet. But understand that there can be massive losses.

[philfree]

Originally Posted by Buehler445

Right. Most people don't know what stocks are in the funds in their 401K much less PE ratios, dividends, returns, fees, whatever. And yet people still invest in it.

It's pretty easy to get into cows. All the lots around here are typically customer owned. Most of them will get the cows bought for you and then feed them out for you. It's pretty common.

But it carries some risk. There are opportunities for HUGE losses. A few years ago, I hauled some corn into a feedlot and asked the ops manager how things were going. He said, "Well, our guys went from losing $500/head to $300/head and they think that is pretty alright." And this is like a 35,000 head lot



All I could think to say was they have a different banker than I have.

There are different things you can do to minimize the risk. You can hedge on the board corn, feeders and fats. That way your only risk is death loss or degraded gain rates. Typically there is little to no profit to be had by hedging all of your components. Like I said, a month ago you could hedge in a profit, but it won't be the giant ass gains that you always hear about.

Like I said before, I wouldn't do it with any money you ever intend to see again, but there can be money made with them.

All that being said, I've never done it. Dad has a few times, but I have not.
If you want the number to any local feedlots, let me know. I can get you guys that know what the hell they're doing and can explain the process better than I can. Or you can talk to ghak and buy a couple head to get your feet wet. But understand that there can be massive losses.

That's pretty informative. Thanks. I know that farmers can insure their crop in case they lose it. The hunting guide up S. Dakota where we used to hunt was glade when he lost his crop and the insurance paid. Said he didn't have to do near as much work. Is there insurance for cows?

[Amnorix]

Originally Posted by philfree

It's just something I have always considered doing. Wondered if I could make any money doing it. And just because I don't know something today doesn't mean I can't learn about it and then know it. Kind of like any business. Definitely need to be dealing with trust worthy people. I'm pretty sure gahk99 is just wanting to rustle my cattle though so I better watch out for him.

It's not like I'd bet the farm on it. It would also be easy for me to just park all my money in the market but I thought I'd think outside the box for different investments. I'm thinking about buying some rental properties too but I don't know everything about that either so maybe I should just go ahead and punt.

Definitely agree that thinking outside the box isn't bad, and that if you learn about it in advance, then it's fine to go that route with "not betting the house" type money.

But I would definitely get educated about something before putting any money into it, unless again, you're investing in people that you seriously know/like/trust/respect.

[Hog's Gone Fishin]

Originally Posted by philfree

That's pretty informative. Thanks. I know that farmers can insure their crop in case they lose it. The hunting guide up S. Dakota where we used to hunt was glade when he lost his crop and the insurance paid. Said he didn't have to do near as much work. Is there insurance for cows?

Call "Farmers Insurance". They've seen a thing or two.

[Buehler445]

Originally Posted by philfree

That's pretty informative. Thanks. I know that farmers can insure their crop in case they lose it. The hunting guide up S. Dakota where we used to hunt was glade when he lost his crop and the insurance paid. Said he didn't have to do near as much work. Is there insurance for cows?

Not that I'm aware of. Nobody I know carries a policy. In a feedlot Death loss is typically not very high. Giant Snowstorms sometimes cause trouble and one small yard had some epidemic go through, other than that it is out of state cattle coming in extreme weather that kills cows: Southern cows coming in a cold snap or northern cows coming when it is hot. After a few days they get used to it, so the risk is fairly low. Some critters get BRD and just don't make it, but I'd bet over the long term you'd be money ahead to not try and insure anything.

What farmers have is multiperil crop insurance and essentially what that is insuring a revenue stream from a planted crop based on prior production. It's pretty easy to do actuarial stuff with yield. It is far more difficult to insure against death loss. It would probably have to be on each individual animal like a vehicle or something, and that would be problematic.

There is some money available in the USDA budget for Livestock disaster programs, but I don't know much about them and I have no idea how they would pay on a custom feeding job.

ghak is probably better suited to answer most of this than I am.

[Cornstock]

Originally Posted by Demonpenz

I know it is a pain but people need to screen shot the eft's to meI don't know what a vug is

No worries mate, VUG is the "ticker symbol" (quick abbreviation) for the name of a fund offered by vanguard.

While you're still learning the lingo I'll keep explaining things, let us know if something is unclear, there are no dumb questions when it comes to investing.

[lewdog]

Looking at finally getting some Marijuana exposure.

Horizons Medical Marijuana Life Sciences ETF seems like the best best for exposure, without having to take on an individual company in a sector that has and will have a lot of players. Canopy Growth probably tops the company list, but with it's large market cap (1.2B) but small revenue (20M), the smart investor in me says there's a risky PE ratio (near 80) to be playing with at this time. Marijuana is going to go recreational in Canada sometime in 2018 I think, so wanting to get in now.

Any of you have exposure in this sector?


http://www.marketwatch.com/story/hor...mmj-2017-06-08

[Cornstock]

Originally Posted by lewdog

Looking at finally getting some Marijuana exposure.

Horizons Medical Marijuana Life Sciences ETF seems like the best best for exposure, without having to take on an individual company in a sector that has and will have a lot of players. Canopy Growth probably tops the company list, but with it's large market cap (1.2B) but small revenue (20M), the smart investor in me says there's a risky PE ratio (near 80) to be playing with at this time. Marijuana is going to go recreational in Canada sometime in 2018 I think, so wanting to get in now.

Any of you have exposure in this sector?


http://www.marketwatch.com/story/hor...mmj-2017-06-08

Tangent question to this, I remember the local banks in areas that had marijuana industries had all kinds of logistical headaches trying to keep "green" money separate from normal money when the industries were blossoming (pun intended) to comply with federal regulations around the source of funds. I haven't followed it closely enough to see if this was ever resolved.

My question is if these restrictions pertain to equity stakes to the companies, especially in jurisdictions where marijuana is still very illegal.

Anyone have any insight to this?

[Demonpenz]

Originally Posted by Cornstock

No worries mate, VUG is the "ticker symbol" (quick abbreviation) for the name of a fund offered by vanguard.

While you're still learning the lingo I'll keep explaining things, let us know if something is unclear, there are no dumb questions when it comes to investing.

Sounds good I didn't chose the Vug Lyfe, it choose me.

[ChiliConCarnage]

Originally Posted by lewdog

Looking at finally getting some Marijuana exposure.

Horizons Medical Marijuana Life Sciences ETF seems like the best best for exposure, without having to take on an individual company in a sector that has and will have a lot of players.

I like the idea but that ETF doesnt seem to cover a lot. 60% seems to be 6 companies it (randomly?) decided to assign 10% weight too. Including Scotts Miracle Gro, which Id assume is only tangentially related to mj as a core product.

I think Id rather pick myself at those levels. Maybe look at Motif? I'm sure they have all sorts of marijuana motifs with 20-30 stocks. If you don't love any, you can create your own

[lewdog]

Originally Posted by ChiliConCarnage

I like the idea but that ETF doesnt seem to cover a lot. 60% seems to be 6 companies it (randomly?) decided to assign 10% weight too. Including Scotts Miracle Gro, which Id assume is only tangentially related to mj as a core product.

I think Id rather pick myself at those levels. Maybe look at Motif? I'm sure they have all sorts of marijuana motifs with 20-30 stocks. If you don't love any, you can create your own

If you type in Marijuana Motif, they weight Scotts Miracle Grow at 20% of their marijuana portfolio. I personally don't see much wrong with the ETF list. The idea is to cover the major players in the game, without taking a gamble on the hundreds that are out there. The ETF itself will shift it's holding as it sees fit over the years to adjust to the market.

Care to explain Motif a little more? I vaguely know the term but don't want to have to open another account to invest in them.

[ChiliConCarnage]

Originally Posted by lewdog

The ETF itself will shift it's holding as it sees fit over the years to adjust to the market.

Care to explain Motif a little more? I vaguely know the term but don't want to have to open another account to invest in them.

I've never invested with them but it seems to be a neat way to make a mini-etf that yourself or others can buy.

[Buehler445]

I would all but guarantee scotts isn't providing the fertilizer for weed unless they have seriously bamboozled some execs. There is waaaaaaay cheaper fertilizers out there. Unless Scott's is something different.

[Cornstock]

Anecdotal story. With the exception of 1 investment I've made in the past 3 years, I wish I would have only invested in S&P indexed stuff. With some of my "blow money" I've taken gambles on an oil exploration and refining etf (VDE), as well as a couple of up and coming tech stocks. The oil etf has been down basically since I've bought it. I console myself knowing that since it's a pretty high dividend paying fund and I'm reinvesting dividends, I'm improving my cost basis. And my horizon is still 30 years out, so I'm in no hurry. But I sure wish it would be performing better. As far as the tech stocks, they don't pay dividends, as they are still trying to make a profit, and they very well may be very good investments in time. Just a ways to go yet.

But I'm comparing them to the indexed funds I've bought over the same period and they are looking terrible. I pride myself with trying to keep my overall performance above that of the overall s&P. Right now overall it is pretty much exactly matched.

I know I just need to be patient. I have no intention to sell any of this stuff, as it still has great potential. I'm just complaining that it doesn't churn out 15+% every year like clockwork. Unreasonable? Yes. Still gonna complain though.

[Demonpenz]

Originally Posted by Cornstock

Anecdotal story. With the exception of 1 investment I've made in the past 3 years, I wish I would have only invested in S&P indexed stuff. With some of my "blow money" I've taken gambles on an oil exploration and refining etf (VDE), as well as a couple of up and coming tech stocks. The oil etf has been down basically since I've bought it. I console myself knowing that since it's a pretty high dividend paying fund and I'm reinvesting dividends, I'm improving my cost basis. And my horizon is still 30 years out, so I'm in no hurry. But I sure wish it would be performing better. As far as the tech stocks, they don't pay dividends, as they are still trying to make a profit, and they very well may be very good investments in time. Just a ways to go yet.

But I'm comparing them to the indexed funds I've bought over the same period and they are looking terrible. I pride myself with trying to keep my overall performance above that of the overall s&P. Right now overall it is pretty much exactly matched.

I know I just need to be patient. I have no intention to sell any of this stuff, as it still has great potential. I'm just complaining that it doesn't churn out 15+% every year like clockwork. Unreasonable? Yes. Still gonna complain though.

you have to have a balance of fun and some good investments. If all I did was the solid stuff I would be bored as ****. You are getting some entertainment checking everday like fantasy football.