The 4-3 Under and Current Personnel

[11Chiefs]

Here are some thoughts about transitioning to 4-3. I like the player comparisons. Let these guys play in a scheme and position where they can succeed. My only question... can KPass adjust and find a role.

The 4-3 discussion deserves it's own thread. #megathreadssuck

https://www.arrowheadpride.com/2019/...personnel-fits

Spoiler!

With the hiring of new defensive coordinator Steve Spagnuolo, the Chiefs are likely seeing a switch from their 3-4 defense to the 4-3. That’s caused a lot of consternation amongst Chiefs fans, but where are the biggest problems for the Chiefs in this switch?

I’m going to give you a quick-and-dirty look at where some players can fit, position responsibilities and who are the winners and losers of the formation switch.

The 4-3 variant that Spagnuolo chooses to use is similar to that utilized by his mentor and former Andy Reid defensive coordinator Jim Johnson, called the 4-3 Under. The 4-3 Under front shares quite a few similarities to that of the Chiefs 3-4 defense, making this transition easier.

Weak-side defensive end - The Weak-side defensive end — also called the “LEO” — in the 4-3 Under is typically the best pass rusher on the team. Putting his hand in the dirt, this defender is responsible for weak-side run contain opposite the tight end and getting after the quarterback. With the Chiefs current personnel, this would be an easy fill for Dee Ford. Limited coverage responsibility, ability to set an edge, and — most importantly — a great pass rusher are all things that we’ve seen from Dee Ford this season.

3 Technique - Lining up to the same side as the weak-side defensive end, the 3-tech is a penetrating player capable of beating a guard one on one. This position is typically a player that has a solid get-off, can knife to either side and has the speed to attack the run from the back side. Once again, an easy fit — and potentially a better fit in the 3-4 base defense — for Chris Jones. Jones can utilize his speed and strength to collapse on the run, get after the passer, and find plenty of great matchups one on one in a 4-3 under front.

1 Technique - Opposite of the 3 technique, the 1 technique is typically a 2-gap player, getting doubles against the strong-side guard and center, freeing up the linebackers behind him to make stops. This is usually filled by a player in an “under tackle” or “nose guard” mold, which the Chiefs have in Derrick Nnadi and Xavier Williams. Both will have to command a double team to keep the linebackers clean, and both should be plenty capable.

Strong-side defensive end - Lined up to the strong side of the offense, this defensive end will be between the tight end and the tackle, and their primary responsibility is as a run stuffer with a minimal amount of pass rush ability. This is actually a perfect fit to try to maximize last year’s second-round pick Breeland Speaks. Speaks is solid against the run, but looks uncomfortable in space, something he won’t have to contend with often lined up in this spot. With some wanting to kick Speaks inside to 5-tech in the Chiefs 3-4 defense, this situation presents a better opportunity for Speaks to develop as a starting player for the Chiefs.

SAM linebacker - When most think of the 4-3 defense, they think of three off-ball linebackers on the second level behind four defensive linemen. With the 4-3 Under, one of those off-ball linebackers shifts down close to the line of scrimmage — still standing — and can rush the passer or drop into coverage to carry a tight end to the safeties in the second level. During Spagnuolo’s second run as a defensive coordinator with the New York Giants, he acquired Olivier Vernon, who played this role regularly. Vernon is a large outside linebacker with limited coverage ability but was able to defend the run very well off of the tight end and could find a lot of success as a pass rusher standing up. If that sounds familiar to you, it should — it’s quite similar to what Justin Houston has offered the Chiefs recently. Houston would be a very solid fit in this role should the Chiefs retain him.

Mike linebacker - Shading between the 1-tech and the 3-tech at the second level, the Mike linebacker’s responsibility in the 4-3 under are to cover a short hook zone in the center of the field and to attack the run. With his limited coverage ability shown this season — as well as a much more familiar four-man front in front of him, like he saw in Dallas — Anthony Hitchens is a solid fit in this role. He’ll be less exposed in coverage, can set the fronts, and attack downhill more readily instead of being asked to cover multiple gaps as the weak-side linebacker in the Chiefs 3-4.

Will linebacker - Sitting behind the weak-side defensive end and the 3-tech, the will linebacker is tasked with keying off of the running back in the run game and kicking out into man coverage or the flats against the pass. This will linebacker is typically kept clean by the defensive linemen in front of him, allowing him to attack as unimpeded to the running back as he can from the weak side of the formation. As a good coverage linebacker and a guy that struggles to stack and shed blockers, Dorian O’Daniel might gain the biggest advantage in a scheme switch. The Chiefs could find themselves in a great position to utilize last year’s third-round pick.

When the Chiefs change to their sub package — something that every NFL team runs as their primary package — this evolves easily. The Chiefs can remove the 1-tech, shift the strong-side defensive end inside, and bring the SAM down — a 4-2 front similar to that they’ve used in the past — or they can remove the strong-side defensive end and stay big in the middle to protect against the run, still as a 4-2 front.

Winners
NFL: Kansas City Chiefs at Denver Broncos
Mark J. Rebilas-USA TODAY Sports
Breeland Speaks is a big winner here, having a true position on the field. His ability to kick inside in the sub package and play the run in the base are hugely beneficial for the Chiefs. Dorian O’Daniel and Anthony Hitchens would be in significantly more comfortable roles for the style of play they are capable of, and that should only improve the Chiefs run defense and coverage ability. Chris Jones is also a big winner, seeing more one-on-ones in the base defense and he too could find snaps in Speaks’ strong-side defensive end role if the Chiefs wanted to develop a more penetrating front on some plays.

Losers
Reggie Ragland simply doesn’t have a home in a 4-3 Under. He isn’t strong enough to set an edge or rushing the passer to play the way Spagnuolo utilizes his SAM, and he’s not a better option at the Mike than Anthony Hitchens. Tanoh Kpassagnon is also not a great option at SAM due to his run defense, and not a good enough pass rusher as a LEO to come off the other EDGE.

With the Chiefs having to make some serious decisions at pass rusher — Justin Houston’s bloated contract and Dee Ford’s impending free agency — they’ll have to decide if they need to keep both, or which position they’ll have to fill this offseason. While the LEO position is arguably the most important in the front, the skillset of the SAM is a difficult one to find.

[seaofred]

Weak-Side DE- Ford
3- Tech DT- Jones
1- Tech DT- Nnadi
Strong-Side DE- Speaks
SAM LB- Houston
MLB- Hitchens
WILL- DoD

[duncan_idaho]

Ford’s complete inadequacy against the run makes him a “hell no” for me at RE in this offense.

I can Houston at that spot, I can see using Houston as the SAM backer in base and as an end in your pass down sets.

But I just can’t see using Ford as your base E. Can’t see how you improve the run D enough in that situation.

For me, it’s still tag and trade him for what you can, then spend the money on a cheaper DE replacement or secondary help, prioritizing the draft with the other selection.

As for LB, there are a lot of flexible guys who could seem to project to 43 MLB or WLB. I like the Pratt kid from NC State as well (someone mentioned him earlier in thread, I think). Seems like the Chiefs can get a player like that with one of their seconds, which would give them nice insurance if Hitchens or O’Danial is inadequate.

[ChiefoftheKeyboard]

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501

We have a pretty good idea of what spagnuolos top priority will be. Out of 10 drafts as DC for the giants, half of the first and second round picks went to a DB. Not to mention they signed janoris Jenkins to a huge deal. Our secondary is going to see a huge facelift and I'm definitely cool with that.

I totally agree. I think they'll target Nasir Adderley in the first round. Great safety that would fit his system and tons of versatility. Plus im sure veach would love drafting from his alma mater

[ShowtimeSBMVP]

For the tag and trade Ford crowd. You can only trade him if he signs the tag he holds all the cards here not the chiefs.

[ChiefoftheKeyboard]

Originally Posted by bowener

Why do people keep saying this? You never let him walk. There is no scenario where the Chiefs should do anything but tag him. They hold all the cards and can trade him for a very good draft pick.

I assume Arizona will be going back to the 3-4 this season and last I remember is they need a pass rusher. The Packers are absolutely desperate for a pass rusher.

Idk if the Packers would give up pick 12 for Ford, but that price feels about right.

edit: If Chiefs got pick 12 they might get lucky enough to grab Greedy Williams if he slides out of the top 10.

edit2: If they could move back Deionte Thompson would make me very happy. Then they take BDPA at 29.

I am sure Spag would love Landon Collins back in his defense too. Giants are still transitioning to a 3-4 so a trade between the two could make sense. I'd still want a reasonable pick on top of collins. Maybe a 3 or a 4.

[The Franchise]

Originally Posted by ChiefoftheKeyboard

I totally agree. I think they'll target Nasir Adderley in the first round. Great safety that would fit his system and tons of versatility. Plus im sure veach would love drafting from his alma mater

This is who I'm leaning towards in the 1st round.

[duncan_idaho]

Originally Posted by Showtime

For the tag and trade Ford crowd. You can only trade him if he signs the tag he holds all the cards here not the chiefs.

Understandable. But you make the franchise tag offer and he either takes it or doesn’t. If he doesn’t, you get comp picks if he signs with another team.

He’s going to get a lot more salary from the team you trade him to if he signs that tag and is then traded than if that team has to give up two firsts to sign him off the non exclusive tag.

He has some power, for sure, but it’s in his best interest to sign the tag.

[BleedingRed]

Originally Posted by Showtime

For the tag and trade Ford crowd. You can only trade him if he signs the tag he holds all the cards here not the chiefs.

He won’t sign, he holds the leverage.

And he knows once released he can cash in. I tried telling people this, but Nooooo. Other teams will wait for release

[O.city]

Originally Posted by BleedingRed

He won’t sign, he holds the leverage.

And he knows once released he can cash in. I tried telling people this, but Nooooo. Other teams will wait for release

Once he knows that’s the route they wanna go, his agent would start negotiating a long term deal with said team they’re going to trade him to. Once parameters are agreed upon.

Then he’d sign it

[ChiefoftheKeyboard]

Originally Posted by Showtime

For the tag and trade Ford crowd. You can only trade him if he signs the tag he holds all the cards here not the chiefs.

He already said he would sign it lol

[ShowtimeSBMVP]

Originally Posted by ChiefoftheKeyboard

He already said he would sign it lol

Until his agent gets involved. What do you want Ford to say lol

[ChiefoftheKeyboard]

Originally Posted by BleedingRed

He won’t sign, he holds the leverage.

And he knows once released he can cash in. I tried telling people this, but Nooooo. Other teams will wait for release

He literally has no leverage. If he doesn't sign it he'll be a year older with still no deal.. and the chiefs can just tag him again. We have all the leverage. Just hope we use it correctly.

[staylor26]

Originally Posted by The Franchise

This is who I'm leaning towards in the 1st round.

I like Adderley, but I’d rather go with Baker or Mullen if available.

I definitely think we go DB in round 1 though.

[ShowtimeSBMVP]

Originally Posted by O.city

Once he knows that’s the route they wanna go, his agent would start negotiating a long term deal with said team they’re going to trade him to. Once parameters are agreed upon.

Then he’d sign it

Dee said yesterday he would love to get to the open market

[The Franchise]

Originally Posted by BleedingRed

He won’t sign, he holds the leverage.

And he knows once released he can cash in. I tried telling people this, but Nooooo. Other teams will wait for release

Ignoring the fact where he’s already publically states that he has no problem getting tagged?