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Old 07-30-2018, 05:36 PM  
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****Official 2018 Missouri Tigers Football Thread****
The beginning of the 2018 season is a little under five weeks away. Missouri enters the year projected to finish 4th in the East, and may be a borderline Top 25 team according to some projection systems. After a disappointing recruiting cycle last year, pressure is on Odom to restock the cupboard after the senior years of Lock and Beckner, who will go down as two of the better Tigers in history and likely first round draft picks.

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Recruiting:

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At this point, the class is ranked 68-69 nationally by Rivals and 24/7. Odom is going to have to rely on Pinkel's diamond-in-the-rough approach. It looks like they've pulled back considerably from Georgia, focusing more upon Texas, which is what they should have always done. Unfortunately, they've done horrific in-state, and I think that will likely end up being the nail in Odom's coffin after the 2019 season.

12/19 Update: A strong finish late in the cycle moved the class up significantly. Securing commitments from grad transfer Kelly Bryant and TCU transfer Shawn Robinson has solidified the QB position in the short and intermediate term. A class that was ranked in the 60's at the beginning of the season is now a top 20-30 class factoring in transfers.

Hamas' Crystal Ball: 8-4; 4-4 in the SEC (wins vs. Ark, Tenn, Vandy, Kentucky)
Last edited by 'Hamas' Jenkins; 12-19-2018 at 10:24 PM.. Reason: Signing Day. Bolded names have signed LOI
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Old 10-26-2018, 09:02 AM   #631
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Billay,

If you're interested in what duncan is talking about, watch The Pruitt-Igoe Myth
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Old 10-26-2018, 09:03 AM   #632
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People of color from the traditionally black neighborhoods of St. Louis have a tough relationship with the West and South county suburbs of their own cities. There are huge racism issues in St. Louis because it is perhaps the greatest example of white flight in the Midwest. The whole city vs. county dynamic is horrible in St. Louis.

And I get it.

If I’m a person of color living in Florissant who saw my in-City suburb become a total POS because all the white folks fled to the counties when schools desegregated, and that tax revenue/stable family dynamic fled with them to an area where it isn’t used for anything but the county, that would be a tough pill to swallow and just get along as neighbors and residents of the same city.

That carries over to Mizzou impressions. Because in addition to all the suburban kids from St. Louis who go there, you also have a large percentage of rural kids who grew up in extremely homogeneous communities going there, and there are tensions there, too.

Norm Stewart’s reputation also is a factor. He was the face of Mizzou for a long time, and was extremely disliked in St. Louis City.

And yes, the mentality is bullshit. For every Ezekiel Elliott who goes out of state and blows up, there are a dozen or more kids who went out of state to be “bigger than Mizzou” and get screwed over/recruited over in ways that wouldn’t happen at the home state school.
This makes alot more sense. Thanks.
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Old 10-26-2018, 09:04 AM   #633
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People of color from the traditionally black neighborhoods of St. Louis have a tough relationship with the West and South county suburbs of their own cities. There are huge racism issues in St. Louis because it is perhaps the greatest example of white flight in the Midwest. The whole city vs. county dynamic is horrible in St. Louis.
I've never bothered to look into this terribly closely, but I have to believe there is some sort of state-wide measure that could be taken to just hammer that goddamn incorporation measure through.

The citizens of County/City will never do it. The County sees the City (perhaps justifiably) as an economic sinkhole that will siphon off tons of tax-dollars to little yield for the citizens of the county. Meanwhile the city residents have developed such deep seeded resentment towards the county that they've kinda developed a '**** you, we'll sit here in squalor before we accept your help' mentality.

At some point the rational actors with no dogs in the fight need to recognize how damaging letting the City fall into disrepair has been for the entire area and frankly it hurts the reputation of the state as a whole.

Surely there can be some sort of statewide legislative action that can simply run over the stalwarts in the city/county that refuse to consider incorporation. They have to do something drastic if there is any hope of pulling the City out of its tailspin. Simply gentrifying a few areas around the ballpark and calling it a day isn't doing anything but making people in the region more entrenched.
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Old 10-26-2018, 09:11 AM   #634
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Billay,

If you're interested in what duncan is talking about, watch The Pruitt-Igoe Myth
I'll check this out tonight. I knew things were bad in St.Louis but was totally oblivious just how bad. The Ferguson riots make a little more sense now.
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Old 10-26-2018, 09:51 AM   #635
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I'll check this out tonight. I knew things were bad in St.Louis but was totally oblivious just how bad. The Ferguson riots make a little more sense now.
I don’t really follow Mizzou or college sports in general, but I find this discussion very interesting. I grew up in KC (Lee’s Summit) and spent many of my summers growing up in Columbia where my dad lived. I never really liked Columbia that much because it seemed like it was just an extension of St Louis. I remember everyone there being all about St Louis and acting like KC didn’t exist. I visited Mizzou as a senior but decided to stay at home and go to UMKC after basically getting the same treatment from the school. This was also during the Norm Stewart era, although I still get that same vibe when I go back and visit my relatives in Columbia.
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Old 10-26-2018, 10:18 AM   #636
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Curious about Kelly Bryant being in tomorrow...wonder how good of a shot we have at him, would love to see it happen.
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Old 10-26-2018, 11:39 AM   #637
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I don’t really follow Mizzou or college sports in general, but I find this discussion very interesting. I grew up in KC (Lee’s Summit) and spent many of my summers growing up in Columbia where my dad lived. I never really liked Columbia that much because it seemed like it was just an extension of St Louis. I remember everyone there being all about St Louis and acting like KC didn’t exist. I visited Mizzou as a senior but decided to stay at home and go to UMKC after basically getting the same treatment from the school. This was also during the Norm Stewart era, although I still get that same vibe when I go back and visit my relatives in Columbia.
Missouri State is the same way with the vibe towards St. Louis as well. The reason for that is there isn't very many traditional public residential universities on the central and eastern side of the state. Granted St. Louis is the largest population area but the students from there go to Mizzou and Missouri State because they are the closest traditional public universities to go to. Kansas City area - half of it is on the Kansas side plus all the other universities within an hour of metro - CMSU, Northwest and Missouri Western. That divides out the Kansas City population even thinner.
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Old 10-26-2018, 12:01 PM   #638
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Originally Posted by duncan_idaho View Post
People of color from the traditionally black neighborhoods of St. Louis have a tough relationship with the West and South county suburbs of their own cities. There are huge racism issues in St. Louis because it is perhaps the greatest example of white flight in the Midwest. The whole city vs. county dynamic is horrible in St. Louis.

And I get it.

If I’m a person of color living in Florissant who saw my in-City suburb become a total POS because all the white folks fled to the counties when schools desegregated, and that tax revenue/stable family dynamic fled with them to an area where it isn’t used for anything but the county, that would be a tough pill to swallow and just get along as neighbors and residents of the same city.

That carries over to Mizzou impressions. Because in addition to all the suburban kids from St. Louis who go there, you also have a large percentage of rural kids who grew up in extremely homogeneous communities going there, and there are tensions there, too.

Norm Stewart’s reputation also is a factor. He was the face of Mizzou for a long time, and was extremely disliked in St. Louis City.

And yes, the mentality is bullshit. For every Ezekiel Elliott who goes out of state and blows up, there are a dozen or more kids who went out of state to be “bigger than Mizzou” and get screwed over/recruited over in ways that wouldn’t happen at the home state school.
Don't you think the hands-up-don't-shoot rabble rousers who came to Mizzou to stir up trouble in the wake of the Ferguson protests 3 years ago have something to do with it?
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Old 10-26-2018, 12:20 PM   #639
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Don't you think the hands-up-don't-shoot rabble rousers who came to Mizzou to stir up trouble in the wake of the Ferguson protests 3 years ago have something to do with it?
Nah, not as much as you think.

The perception pre-dates CS1950 and their bullshit by decades.

It might have had an impact for a recruiting cycle or two, but it's largely washed out, IMO. Besides, Pinkel's actions (and by extension Odom's perception) aligned with the rabble-rousers.

I don't believe the CS1950 crap had much, if any, impact on recruiting for Mizzou.
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Old 10-26-2018, 12:44 PM   #640
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Don't you think the hands-up-don't-shoot rabble rousers who came to Mizzou to stir up trouble in the wake of the Ferguson protests 3 years ago have something to do with it?

No.

I’ve been closely following recruiting for 20 years. This has always been an issue with St. Louis recruits for Mizzou, at least in that timeframe. It isn’t a modern phenomenon from what I understand, either, in talking to those who have followed it longer.

Missouri only gets a reasonable share of St. Louis recruits when the program is winning at high levels and the coach is respected.

The protests might have given another convenient excuse for someone to go away, but it’s just an excuse, not a cause for the disconnect.

The only people still generally affected by the protests are those who opposed them. And those people don’t typically have children who are being recruited to play football at Mizzou.

The causative conditions and perceptions that led to the CS1950 group in the first place (extreme minority population, under-represented in student body and faculty, treatment by majority, etc) are also factors in why many in the minority communities in St. Louis aren’t all-in in Mizzou.
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Old 10-27-2018, 02:29 PM   #641
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And they gave Snell a favorable spot...still short
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Old 10-27-2018, 02:38 PM   #642
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Old 10-27-2018, 02:42 PM   #643
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That would be nice.
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Old 10-27-2018, 02:54 PM   #644
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Missouri State is the same way with the vibe towards St. Louis as well. The reason for that is there isn't very many traditional public residential universities on the central and eastern side of the state. Granted St. Louis is the largest population area but the students from there go to Mizzou and Missouri State because they are the closest traditional public universities to go to. Kansas City area - half of it is on the Kansas side plus all the other universities within an hour of metro - CMSU, Northwest and Missouri Western. That divides out the Kansas City population even thinner.
Same with Drury, to an extent. Traditional undergrads were mostly St. Louisians and Springfieldians... which Springfield itself is a wannabe St. Louis.

I'd guess it's at least 1.5 if not 2 to 1 on STL to KC kids while I was there.
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Old 10-27-2018, 03:04 PM   #645
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