WR Room?

[Couch-Potato]

Originally Posted by Chris Meck

Dude. You have no idea what you're talking about.

MVS is the same player as Mecole? They have no attributes in common at all except for speed. That's it. Nothing else in common whatsoever.

Just stop.

They're both 3rd option speed guys that specialize in running deep routes to stretch the defense. Stat lines over the years are nearly identical. No?

[duncan_idaho]

Originally Posted by Couch-Potato

They're both 3rd option speed guys that specialize in running deep routes to stretch the defense. Stat lines over the years are nearly identical. No?

They’re both speed guys but are still different players. Valses-Scantling isn’t as quick or shifty as Hardman. They’re not going to use him on all the horizontal stuff, the end arounds, the shallow crosses, etc. that Hardman does (that Hill used to do).

Valses-Scantling is going to be an intermediate and vertical route runner. Hardman is going to be more of a short route runner.

[Couch-Potato]

Originally Posted by duncan_idaho

They’re both speed guys but are still different players. Valses-Scantling isn’t as quick or shifty as Hardman. They’re not going to use him on all the horizontal stuff, the end arounds, the shallow crosses, etc. that Hardman does (that Hill used to do).

Valses-Scantling is going to be an intermediate and vertical route runner. Hardman is going to be more of a short route runner.

Ok, that's a fair assessment and truth be told I don't really have anything against Hardman, I just haven't seen much out of him. I also wonder if Moore might end up being better at "all the horizontal stuff, the end arounds, the shallow crosses, etc. that Hardman does (that Hill used to do)" making Hardman expendable before next season.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by Couch-Potato

They're both 3rd option speed guys that specialize in running deep routes to stretch the defense. Stat lines over the years are nearly identical. No?

They're not similar players at all.

Hardman has more twitch and immediate burst than MVS, who's more of a build up guy. MVS is physical at the catch point but for a guy with his speed isn't a very good YAC guy.

Those underneath routes and bubble screens aren't going to be nearly as effective with MVS as they are with Hardman.

And for all the 'well he needs gimmicks to get yards' stuff - who gives a shit? Between the 20s, yards are yards. And those 'gimmicks' present something else opposing DCs have to think about and prepare for. Moreover, Hardman is a guy who's extremely dangerous on drag routes and even seam routes when give the opportunity.

Duncan said it well - they're both deep threats, but they're complementary deep threats. They don't get there in the same way. Being a 'deep threat' WR isn't just about being a guy that can run a 9 route; that's just way too basic.

And again, Hardman's value is as much about depth as anything. This team doesn't have the bodies it needs to run a full playbook without Hardman. Any drive that isn't over in 5 snaps will require you to basically scrap your 11 personnel by the time you get to the other half of the field because you don't have the WR rotation you need to keep sending them.

I think folks REALLY underestimate the physical toll that simply running routes takes on guys who aren't Tyreek Hill. It's goddamn exhausting. And if it isn't, then you're running at 85-90% and are less effective for it.

If you want to be able to have 3 guys you can send out there at top speed snap after snap after snap, you've gotta have 4 guys you can rotate. If you don't, you're going to struggle.

[duncan_idaho]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

They're not similar players at all.

Hardman has more twitch and immediate burst than MVS, who's more of a build up guy. MVS is physical at the catch point but for a guy with his speed isn't a very good YAC guy.

Those underneath routes and bubble screens aren't going to be nearly as effective with MVS as they are with Hardman.

And for all the 'well he needs gimmicks to get yards' stuff - who gives a shit? Between the 20s, yards are yards. And those 'gimmicks' present something else opposing DCs have to think about and prepare for. Moreover, Hardman is a guy who's extremely dangerous on drag routes and even seam routes when give the opportunity.

Duncan said it well - they're both deep threats, but they're complementary deep threats. They don't get there in the same way. Being a 'deep threat' WR isn't just about being a guy that can run a 9 route; that's just way too basic.

And again, Hardman's value is as much about depth as anything. This team doesn't have the bodies it needs to run a full playbook without Hardman. Any drive that isn't over in 5 snaps will require you to basically scrap your 11 personnel by the time you get to the other half of the field because you don't have the WR rotation you need to keep sending them.

I think folks REALLY underestimate the physical toll that simply running routes takes on guys who aren't Tyreek Hill. It's goddamn exhausting. And if it isn't, then you're running at 85-90% and are less effective for it.

If you want to be able to have 3 guys you can send out there at top speed snap after snap after snap, you've gotta have 4 guys you can rotate. If you don't, you're going to struggle.

^ which is why Andy Reid always wants his WR to be versatile enough to run routes from anywhere. Because he uses them interchangeably and has them run the same route concepts from inside or outside, depending on the matchup and who he is trying to exploit.

Which is why rookie WR often take longer to acclimate.

[BossChief]

The only way I could see them moving Hardman is in a trade for a younger starting quality DE. I think Mecole is an ascending player, but this is most likely his last year here and if we can get value from him, I’d do it. Maybe Hardman and a pick for Rashaan Gary, or Josh Allen.

I’d give it a 30% chance of happening. Max. But it’s fun to think about.

[Rasputin]

Originally Posted by BossChief

The only way I could see them moving Hardman is in a trade for a younger starting quality DE. I think Mecole is an ascending player, but this is most likely his last year here and if we can get value from him, I’d do it. Maybe Hardman and a pick for Rashaan Gary, or Josh Allen.

I’d give it a 30% chance of happening. Max. But it’s fun to think about.

Hardman is more valuable to us THIS year than trading him for a DE because Hardman is valuable to this team as the most experienced in this offense and this proposal isn't even in the thought of Bloomsburg Vineyards. Get it out of your head BossChief it's not happening and shouldn't happen. Who would replace him? Sure just start Skyy I'm sure he is capable of it I know he is going be a stellar WR but then we just lost valuable depth at the possession we run a lot of deep routes and we cannot afford to lose a WR for a DT/DE. This is Hardmans shining moment if he can't be anything by the trade deadline then I'd consider trading him but he gives us a chance to help win us a GOD DAMN SUPER BOWL, because he is a threat any time he gets the ball to go the distance. Do you understand that? We may have a rotation to get Skyy and keep guys fresh so that fourth quarter we are still going full throttle with deep routes and that make DBs get tired keeping up. This maybe Hardmans contract year but Byron Vestkeely is probably wanting to evaluate his progression to decide if he wants to bring him back or not. It's 50/50 on if he comes back next year. I can see him leaving and finding a team that appreciates him.

This is your pipe dream, and won't happen. Why do you hate on Hardman? He may have been drafted too high but all he has done is do what the coaches asked of him and has improved every year. So this year I think he is going break 1000 yards because he will get more targets I'm sorry that is going hurt your feelings a player you don't like has success because we need him to have success. We need his speed and knowledge of the plays so he can help the other WRs with the playbook. You want a complete new WR line up without any experience in Andy Reid offense yeah that's smart.

[Megatron96]

I think Hardman is probably going to have a breakout type year. He's certainly going to get plenty of opportunities to have one as the only WR that knows most/all of the playbook. And Andy is going to give him plenty of chances to prove himself, if I'm not mistaken.

Pivot:

Skyy Moore is going to be a starter before week 10. He might prove to be the best Chief from this class a decade from now. He's the WR KC will probably build the rest of the room around going forward.

[Couch-Potato]

How many yards does each WR get?

Mahomes is good for ~4,750 yrds & 40 TDS - Kelce's ~1,250 yrds & 10 TDs = ~3,500 yrds & 30 TDS available...


JuJu, 6'1 215 lbs = 925 yrds & 9 TDS

Hardman, 5'10 180 lbs= 775 yrds & 5 TDS

Moore,l 5'10 195 lbs = 700 yrds & 7 TDS

MVS, 6'4 205 lbs = 625 yrds & 4 TDS

Ross, 6'4 205 lbs = 425 yrds & 3 TDS


My biggest hope for this season though is that Moore & Ross become legit targets and develops into our future starters.

[BWillie]

Originally Posted by Couch-Potato

How many yards does each WR get?

Mahomes is good for ~4,750 yrds & 40 TDS - Kelce's ~1,250 yrds & 10 TDs = ~3,500 yrds & 30 TDS available...


JuJu, 6'1 215 lbs = 925 yrds & 9 TDS

Hardman, 5'10 180 lbs= 775 yrds & 5 TDS

Moore,l 5'10 195 lbs = 700 yrds & 7 TDS

MVS, 6'4 205 lbs = 625 yrds & 4 TDS

Ross, 6'4 205 lbs = 425 yrds & 3 TDS


My biggest hope for this season though is that Moore & Ross become legit targets and develops into our future starters.

Skyy Moore 1009 yards, 7 TDs
JuJu 850 yards, 6 TD
Hardman 660 yards, 2 TD
MVS 605 yards, 6 TD
Ross....not gonna work here

[louie aguiar]

PFF has our WR room ranked 19th. Seems about right.

PFF has ranked the #Chiefs WR room in the league’s lower half. https://t.co/BwoGhj0eJ3

— Arrowhead Addict (@ArrowheadAddict) June 12, 2022

[duncan_idaho]

Originally Posted by louie aguiar

PFF has our WR room ranked 19th. Seems about right.

PFF has ranked the #Chiefs WR room in the league’s lower half. https://t.co/BwoGhj0eJ3

— Arrowhead Addict (@ArrowheadAddict) June 12, 2022

The same rankings have the Denver Broncos 10th, making them - like pretty much everything PFF does - worthless.

[Stryker]

I think the WR room is fine, no need to overthink it at all. This is a CHIEFS transition, in my opinion, for the best. I am actually excited to see what "NEW" game plans Andy and Patrick have instore for us this season. I really think this is going to be better than we think. My desire is for the "NEW" defense to gel. We shall see. I think we will be fine!