Fire Bob Sutton

[petegz28]

That is all.

[chiefzilla1501]

Originally Posted by Best22

Our defense in the playoffs:
Indy loss. Totally unacceptable from the D
Texans win: Great defense here.
Patriots loss: allowed 27 points...Patriots only had the ball for 22 minutes. So 1.2 points per minute
Steelers loss: Yeah...

Neither side of the balk has ever been insanely talented by but the defense has had more talent for longer. And let's face it the bulk of our cap is tied up in defense

Against NE, the Chiefs played without Houston and with Hali as questionable. It was not a bad defense against a dominant offense.

Against Pittsburgh, we never recovered after losing DJ. We were on our third string at both DL and ILB after losing DJ, Howard, Bailey, Mauga to IR. And Houston and Hali played that game at 75% after late season injuries. Still that defense was serviceable given all the injuries.

This narrative that we've been insanely talented on D is an exaggeration. We've had some talent but we've also been rocked by injuries to our star players.

[gold_and_red]

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501

Against NE, the Chiefs played without Houston and with Hali as questionable. It was not a bad defense against a dominant offense.

Against Pittsburgh, we never recovered after losing DJ. We were on our third string at both DL and ILB after losing DJ, Howard, Bailey, Mauga to IR. And Houston and Hali played that game at 75% after late season injuries. Still that defense was serviceable given all the injuries.

This narrative that we've been insanely talented on D is an exaggeration. We've had some talent but we've also been rocked by injuries to our star players.

And Sutton needing only star players to make his D work. He should be coaching only the pro bowl at this point.
New England's D was atrocious the first 4 weeks, they seemed to have gotten better. They have never had star power in their D. Yet they don't bottom out. That is real coaching for you.

[chiefzilla1501]

Originally Posted by gold_and_red

And Sutton needing only star players to make his D work. He should be coaching only the pro bowl at this point.
New England's D was atrocious the first 4 weeks, they seemed to have gotten better. They have never had star power in their D. Yet they don't bottom out. That is real coaching for you.

Again, Sutton has coached a mostly solid defense the past few years and that includes during many, many stretches where we didn't have Berry, DJ, and especially Houston and Hali. Last year's defense was a cripple fight. 2014 we lost Berry and DJ the first week of the year. Stop with this ridiculous narrative that our success in the past was driven by star players to short-sell what we've done on defense in the past.

Our defense was solid in the past. It's not working now and it isn't just a talent issue. They are two totally different things.

[chiefzilla1501]

Originally Posted by T-post Tom

Yes. And refusing to move your best corner to the best receiver when prudent. And for not going heavy in obvious running situations. And for not selling out on the run when you played Pitts. And ignoring the fact that it's okay to blitz in the appropriate situations. (Carr should have been hammered and the Oakland game should have been a win.) And refusing to move another CB outside when the starter (Acker) is getting torched repeatedly. Or NOT moving your best pass rusher around to attack the offense. Has anyone heard any player go out of their way to say something good about Sutton or the scheme? Maybe I missed it. Seems to happen on the offensive side of the ball and special teams. Not so much on defense.

I still think the Houston in coverage thing and not blitzing enough is a bit of an overreaction. I'd like to see less of it but it isn't the silver bullet people think it is.

The rest of your list makes sense. We have to figure out two defenses. The Dime isn't a bad front against a team like New England but we have to get a million times better at guarding 50/50 balls. Pass rush is a much smaller issue compared to completely incompetent ball skills on the deep ball. In fairness, we've gotten screwed on this because we're getting hosed big time on bullshit non-calls on OPI.

Using Dime on PIttsburgh was moronic. What we did against Dallas was a big improvement but we need to go a step further because in selling out to stop the run, we couldn't stop the pass. We've got to figure out how to make that base 3-4 defense work against power teams like Dallas and Pittsburgh.

[mnchiefsguy]

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501

So we run the same coverages every time? Qbs aren't waiting for receivers to open. Right now in dime we are getting beat because we're doing a terrible job of defending jump balls.

Against a power offense like Dallas, that's something entirely different. That by the way was not a traditional dime. We ran a more traditional 3-4 front.

Blitzing is not some magic bullet. In dime, we have to do better on 50/50 balls. Miles better. Or cut them out entirely. In 3-4, we figured out how to limit the run yesterday, so how do we know balance stopping the pass too? We have to stop running dime on power, and I would hope we don't run power against a spread. And our situational playcalling has to improve.

The idea that we didn't mix it up yesterday is over simplistic. There's more to a defense than whether we blitz or don't blitz. And by the way, the past few weeks we've been doing a lot of 4 man rush.

To the bolded part, yes. Tony Romo pointed it out repeatedly. Sutton made no attempts at adjustments yesterday. None.

Never blitzing is not the answer either. Some pressure on the QB is necessary for a successful defense. Sutton is calling a defense that puts no pressure at all on the QB.

Playcalling and scheme are not 100% of the problem, but they are at at least 35-40 percent of the problem. If firing Sutton reduces that number to 25% of the problem, then it is absolutely worth it to fire him right now.

[T-post Tom]

Originally Posted by mnchiefsguy

To the bolded part, yes. Tony Romo pointed it out repeatedly. Sutton made no attempts at adjustments yesterday. None.

Never blitzing is not the answer either. Some pressure on the QB is necessary for a successful defense. Sutton is calling a defense that puts no pressure at all on the QB.

Playcalling and scheme are not 100% of the problem, but they are at at least 35-40 percent of the problem. If firing Sutton reduces that number to 25% of the problem, then it is absolutely worth it to fire him right now.

[gold_and_red]

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501

I still think the Houston in coverage thing and not blitzing enough is a bit of an overreaction. I'd like to see less of it but it isn't the silver bullet people think it is.

The rest of your list makes sense. We have to figure out two defenses. The Dime isn't a bad front against a team like New England but we have to get a million times better at guarding 50/50 balls. Pass rush is a much smaller issue compared to completely incompetent ball skills on the deep ball. In fairness, we've gotten screwed on this because we're getting hosed big time on bullshit non-calls on OPI.

Using Dime on PIttsburgh was moronic. What we did against Dallas was a big improvement but we need to go a step further because in selling out to stop the run, we couldn't stop the pass. We've got to figure out how to make that base 3-4 defense work against power teams like Dallas and Pittsburgh.

We play so much man coverage that leaves us vulnerable to 50-50 balls and crossing routes. On the flip side it is giving us some INT opportunities but the D is just dropping them, that should have Sutton fuming. To keep playing 3-4 against Dallas and Pittsburgh the LBs have to be good in coverage. Sutton does not trust them, so he brings in Sorenson who is just lost in the pile. Berry could be trusted in the run game in place of a LB. His loss is huge.

[chiefzilla1501]

Originally Posted by mnchiefsguy

To the bolded part, yes. Tony Romo pointed it out repeatedly. Sutton made no attempts at adjustments yesterday. None.

Never blitzing is not the answer either. Some pressure on the QB is necessary for a successful defense. Sutton is calling a defense that puts no pressure at all on the QB.

Playcalling and scheme are not 100% of the problem, but they are at at least 35-40 percent of the problem. If firing Sutton reduces that number to 25% of the problem, then it is absolutely worth it to fire him right now.

We did make adjustments. We moved to a base 3-4. We tried out a bigger lineup. We did try Mitchell out there (I wish he was out there more, but he was out there). We experimented with Zone & 4-man rush. We tried a lot of things out there. Keep in mind we're talking about a RB who's had 130+ all purpose yards in 4 straight games. We had 2 days to prepare for him and we held him to less than 100 total yards. It's not like the Pitt game where we got beat by the same dumb Dime front all game long. It's not good enough, but it's a sign that we're trying to make adjustments and it also shouldn't downplay that maybe we also just happened to get beat by one of the most dangerous offenses in the NFL. You're ruling out the possibility that Sutton can't reduce this to 25% or less. I don't know if he can but I completely disagree that he's shown that he's completely incapable of it.

[chiefzilla1501]

Originally Posted by gold_and_red

We play so much man coverage that leaves us vulnerable to 50-50 balls and crossing routes. On the flip side it is giving us some INT opportunities but the D is just dropping them, that should have Sutton fuming. To keep playing 3-4 against Dallas and Pittsburgh the LBs have to be good in coverage. Sutton does not trust them, so he brings in Sorenson who is just lost in the pile. Berry could be trusted in the run game in place of a LB. His loss is huge.

I mostly agree. On the 50/50 balls, that should hopefully be a coachable thing. We need to teach our DBs to have a million times better ball skills. In games where we play Dime, I think we'd be singing a different tune if our DBs were even just average on those plays. So I don't think the Dime as a whole is a terrible concept. We've executed badly which is a reflection on coaching, but I think that's much more fixable and I don't think that's a "we're not blitzing enough" or "Houston is covering too much" issue.

I don't know the answer to how we fix the 3-4 problem. The first step is acknowledging we need a bigger lineup against power teams. I don't know why it took the entire Pitt game to recognize it. At least we did that in Dallas. We now have to figure out how we can do that without selling out entirely against the run.

[Sandy Vagina]

Originally Posted by mnchiefsguy

To the bolded part, yes. Tony Romo pointed it out repeatedly. Sutton made no attempts at adjustments yesterday. None.

Never blitzing is not the answer either. Some pressure on the QB is necessary for a successful defense. Sutton is calling a defense that puts no pressure at all on the QB.

Playcalling and scheme are not 100% of the problem, but they are at at least 35-40 percent of the problem. If firing Sutton reduces that number to 25% of the problem, then it is absolutely worth it to fire him right now.

Romo. Upgrade as new DC. Do it.. and not even kidding. Too much time gone along. Things not getting better? Change things to force change.

Sutton's a joke.. and he's been carried for far too long by great players and fortunate turnovers. Now, the great players are all either too old or broken.. and the rest are misused anyway. **** Bob.

[chiefzilla1501]

Originally Posted by Sandy Vagina

Romo. Upgrade as new DC. Do it.. and not even kidding. Too much time gone along. Things not getting better? Change things to force change.

Sutton's a joke.. and he's been carried for far too long by great players and fortunate turnovers. Now, the great players are all either too old or broken.. and the rest are misused anyway. **** Bob.

LOL with this ongoing narrative about Sutton being carried by great players. And turnovers? You do realize that your guy Alex has been carried by turnovers a hell of a lot more than Sutton has, right? This defense was good enough to win a ton of games the past 4 years even without the turnovers.

[gold_and_red]

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501

I mostly agree. On the 50/50 balls, that should hopefully be a coachable thing. We need to teach our DBs to have a million times better ball skills. In games where we play Dime, I think we'd be singing a different tune if our DBs were even just average on those plays. So I don't think the Dime as a whole is a terrible concept. We've executed badly which is a reflection on coaching, but I think that's much more fixable and I don't think that's a "we're not blitzing enough" or "Houston is covering too much" issue.

I don't know the answer to how we fix the 3-4 problem. The first step is acknowledging we need a bigger lineup against power teams. I don't know why it took the entire Pitt game to recognize it. At least we did that in Dallas. We now have to figure out how we can do that without selling out entirely against the run.

If a problem is easily identifiable (as with our run D) then the fixes will be straightforward although I doubt it will be done during the season.
- Better gap recognition by our inexperienced LBs
- Add one more legit pass rusher
- Stone handed DBs need to get better at catching balls else they can GTFO
- Berry's return

These are the basic steps that need to happen even before we evaluate if players are executing and if Sutton is soft or not.

[Sandy Vagina]

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501

LOL with this ongoing narrative about Sutton being carried by great players. And turnovers? You do realize that your guy Alex has been carried by turnovers a hell of a lot more than Sutton has, right? This defense was good enough to win a ton of games the past 4 years even without the turnovers.

win %.. which was already dismissed by many.. was carried.. for Alex

actual offensive production was greatly reduced because of TOs for Alex though..


Cake and eat yes yes?

[Brooklyn]

We don't have ball hawks. Sutton needs to tell them to stop going for the INT and knock the ball down. Bat it away and make sure there is zero chance of a completion.


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[The Franchise]

The end of the first half was the epitome of Sutton. 3rd and long and we have them on the ropes. He plays soft zone and rushes three. First down. Followed by the same ****ing thing and they're in the redzone. **** Sutton. Get the **** out.