No Chris Jones at OTA's.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by O.city

Plus the positional stuff. We've got a highly paid DE, we've drafted quite a few interior DL lately as well.

We don't have much at corner, developmentally or what after this year.

Locking Fuller into a nice deal for him now, may end up looking great if he has a big year with improved safety play behind him.

There's a 'buy low' window on Fuller that I'd like to take advantage of.

The buy low window never opened on Jones because he wasn't eligible for an extension until this season and he already had his big sack year. Ultimately I think it's likely that we saw his high water mark for sacks and if there's any more development to be done here, it's gonna be as an every down, every play player.

And you just can't know if that light is gonna come on for him. So if you extend him now you may get him at a 10% discount over what his absolute top of the market could end up being after this season. With Fuller I think you can get him with a bigger discount over what his value would be after a good season.

It's just a bit of a bargain hunters mentality. If I can get Fuller on a deal this year that saves me $3-4 million/season over what I think he might be able to earn as a FA after this season, that'll be what I'm chasing because I don't think he's truly broken out yet and I think he has to tools to do it. Jones, OTOH, just doesn't offer quite as much opportunity there because he's coming off a career year and one that I don't think he's gonna duplicate in the 'flash stats'.

[O.city]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

There's a 'buy low' window on Fuller that I'd like to take advantage of.

The buy low window never opened on Jones because he wasn't eligible for an extension until this season and he already had his big sack year. Ultimately I think it's likely that we saw his high water mark for sacks and if there's any more development to be done here, it's gonna be as an every down, every play player.

And you just can't know if that light is gonna come on for him. So if you extend him now you may get him at a 10% discount over what his absolute top of the market could end up being after this season. With Fuller I think you can get him with a bigger discount over what his value would be after a good season.

It's just a bit of a bargain hunters mentality. If I can get Fuller on a deal this year that saves me $3-4 million/season over what I think he might be able to earn as a FA after this season, that'll be what I'm chasing because I don't think he's truly broken out yet and I think he has to tools to do it. Jones, OTOH, just doesn't offer quite as much opportunity there because he's coming off a career year and one that I don't think he's gonna duplicate in the 'flash stats'.

It would just depend on what you could get Fuller locked in at. They don't seem to want to go over what Jones would make this year plus 2 tag years in guaranteed money, which is probably the right move. But, they need to be ready to walk away or trade him if he gets cranky about it.

I think it's kinda shitty sometimes for these dudes to want to get paid full market price early. If you're gonna go the Kelce route and sign early, the team is gonna want some value built into it and it's not gonna reset the market unless you're just....well Mahomes.

[BryanBusby]

I think it's fair to say that Jones should become a little more of a well-rounded player if he wants Donald money.

And no way would I even consider a Fuller extension today.

[O.city]

That's probably the biggest reason they haven't paid him yet. Why would you pay over that when you've got him locked in for 3 years at that price?

[BryanBusby]

When I see all the talk about "gotta lock this guy up early" it really seems like people don't really value the prove it years out of players.

Let some of these guys prove it in a pivotal year for this team....no way would they have got 2018 Dee Ford if they gave him a big deal early because of value. Potential big money is one hell of a motivator vs. I got this guaranteed cash and I'm untouchable for x years.

[Mecca]

Originally Posted by BryanBusby

When I see all the talk about "gotta lock this guy up early" it really seems like people don't really value the prove it years out of players.

Let some of these guys prove it in a pivotal year for this team....no way would they have got 2018 Dee Ford if they gave him a big deal early because of value. Potential big money is one hell of a motivator vs. I got this guaranteed cash and I'm untouchable for x years.

Yea it's because now people are scared of having to pay guys, we are going to lose some players, probably should accept that.

I dunno if I feel comfortable making Chris Jones one of our cornerstones personally.

[BryanBusby]

Originally Posted by Mecca

Yea it's because now people are scared of having to pay guys, we are going to lose some players, probably should accept that.

I dunno if I feel comfortable making Chris Jones one of our cornerstones personally.

Exactly. This team is going to lose some players and there's nothing that can be done about it. Beats having a QB not worth giving money to.

As for Jones, I think extending him with lesser guaranteed money is an alright decision. If he wants more guaranteed money, make him prove he can do what Daly and Spagnuolo demand.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by Mecca

Yea it's because now people are scared of having to pay guys, we are going to lose some players, probably should accept that.

I dunno if I feel comfortable making Chris Jones one of our cornerstones personally.

And that's where I've been.

It's not that I'm 'anti' Jones. I think I like the guy. But I absolutely hate the freelancer shit and if people are saying "Well he just decided to **** the scheme because he was mad at Sutton" well that does him precisely zero favors in my eyes. You can't say "hang my teammates, I'm gett'n mine..."

He has flashes where he's capable of doing things that few in the NFL are capable of. But those guys also don't have the glaring holes in their game he does (run defense) or the tendency towards coasting here and there.

He's a very good player who unquestionably deserves to get paid like a very good player somewhere. But he's not a great player yet and he's demanding great player money to be the cornerstone of this defense long-term. I'm not sure that's something I'm okay doing right now.

Especially when it doesn't appear that he's offering any kind of break at all over what the franchise tag would pay him.

[RunKC]

Originally Posted by BryanBusby

When I see all the talk about "gotta lock this guy up early" it really seems like people don't really value the prove it years out of players.

Let some of these guys prove it in a pivotal year for this team....no way would they have got 2018 Dee Ford if they gave him a big deal early because of value. Potential big money is one hell of a motivator vs. I got this guaranteed cash and I'm untouchable for x years.

Think a lot of it is players wanting to be on themselves to make more money, which you can’t really blame them.

Players with injury concerns like Carson Wentz sign early, but they have to.

[Mecca]

Personally I think the smart thing to do might be to just play this year out and then tag him next year and then let him walk....

[O.city]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

And that's where I've been.

It's not that I'm 'anti' Jones. I think I like the guy. But I absolutely hate the freelancer shit and if people are saying "Well he just decided to **** the scheme because he was mad at Sutton" well that does him precisely zero favors in my eyes. You can't say "hang my teammates, I'm gett'n mine..."

He has flashes where he's capable of doing things that few in the NFL are capable of. But those guys also don't have the glaring holes in their game he does (run defense) or the tendency towards coasting here and there.

He's a very good player who unquestionably deserves to get paid like a very good player somewhere. But he's not a great player yet and he's demanding great player money to be the cornerstone of this defense long-term. I'm not sure that's something I'm okay doing right now.

Especially when it doesn't appear that he's offering any kind of break at all over what the franchise tag would pay him.

Originally Posted by Mecca

Personally I think the smart thing to do might be to just play this year out and then tag him next year and then let him walk....

Depending on how the current other IDL guys develop, i'd probably go that route.

Play this year, tag and trade or tag and keep next year.

[Mecca]

Frank Clark is the cornerstone player of the defense and honestly he's a better overall player because he can do everything.

I know people like Jones but honestly considering we're likely to get a discount on Hill, walking on Jones is probably the smart money bet.

[O.city]

Originally Posted by Mecca

Frank Clark is the cornerstone player of the defense and honestly he's a better overall player because he can do everything.

I know people like Jones but honestly considering we're likely to get a discount on Hill, walking on Jones is probably the smart money bet.

If you could tag and trade him next offseason to say, Arizona for their first rounder, you've gotta do that and move on.

[staylor26]

**** that. You don’t let him walk for nothing. He’s one of the best interior pass rushers in football. A 3rd round comp pick isn’t going to cut it for me.

[Mecca]

Originally Posted by staylor26

**** that. You don’t let him walk for nothing. He’s one of the best interior pass rushers in football. A 3rd round comp pick isn’t going to cut it for me.

Good luck, that will be the offseason of the CBA of you do hang onto him for a tag year so...

The Chiefs will likely also get extra money to spend because with a new CBA the cap should rise quite a bit.