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Old 10-19-2017, 10:12 PM  
petegz28 petegz28 is offline
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Fire Bob Sutton
That is all.
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Old 11-06-2017, 01:44 PM   #451
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I don't care what talent you have and what scheme you run, you do not consistently drop the highest (or one of) paid pass rusher into coverage more than you rush him.

Especially on 3rd & long
Especially when a team is pinned inside their own 2 yard line
Especially when it's a crucial passing down or drive that will decide the game

It's amazing to hear Gruden and Romo and all these announcers say with disbelief that Houston has actually dropped into coverage more than he has rushed the passer.

That is just ****ing inexcusable.
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Old 11-06-2017, 01:46 PM   #452
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When Reid got here, the offense had Charles, Smith, and Bowe

The defense had Houston, Hali, DJ, Berry, Flowers, and Poe.


Basically, almost all of our talent was on the defensive side of the ball when Reid got here. The offense has gradually improved, even without spending a top 2 pick on the offense. Kelce, Robinson, Hill, Hunt, and Conley were all taken after the 2nd round

Defense was given Peters, Jones, Ford, and KPass (all 1-2 rounders). You'd think we'd be a better defensive team, but here we are

When Sutton is shortanded in the playoffs, you get the Indy debacle
When Reid is short handed, you get the Pats playoff game. Not great, but still scored 20 on a solid defense.

Also, a lot of our offensive shortcomings always came back to quarterback and Wide receivers. Dorsey never prioritized receiver in the draft like he did defensive back. But which unit is better?

Reid>Sutton
What kind of talent luxury pool do you think Sutton was swimming in? Berry has been injured over half of the games the past 4 years. Houston has mostly been injured and been a shell of himself in the playoffs. DJ had season ending injuries twice. Poe has been battling back injuries the past few years. In 2014, we had a solid defense losing Berry and DJ the first game of the season. A few years ago, we limped into the playoffs without Houston and Hali. Last year, we limped into the playoffs without DJ, mauga, Bailey, Howard, and Houston coming back at 80% for the playoffs.

I seriously don't understand the insistence that this defense has been crazy talented or that we can't field a defense with lesser talented. For a defense with stars players that can't stay on the field, this D has been pretty consistently good the past 4 years. This year is a unique problem.
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Old 11-06-2017, 01:56 PM   #453
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Old 11-06-2017, 01:57 PM   #454
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Thinking about this a bit more, if Sutton deserves to be fired based on a 9 game sample, shouldn't Reid also go with him who has been running a 4 year atrocity of an offense? OL play has never been above average, abysmal running game, no true WRs, too many horizontal plays and FGs. I get the W-L record and the Smith factor (whom Reid handpicked) but I hope Mahomes can win with Reid not despite him.
Andy Reid also mostly sucks!
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Old 11-06-2017, 01:58 PM   #455
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Andy Reid also mostly sucks!
By mostly do you mean the 6 or the 3?....
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Old 11-06-2017, 01:59 PM   #456
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Originally Posted by petegz28 View Post
I don't care what talent you have and what scheme you run, you do not consistently drop the highest (or one of) paid pass rusher into coverage more than you rush him.

Especially on 3rd & long
Especially when a team is pinned inside their own 2 yard line
Especially when it's a crucial passing down or drive that will decide the game

It's amazing to hear Gruden and Romo and all these announcers say with disbelief that Houston has actually dropped into coverage more than he has rushed the passer.

That is just ****ing inexcusable.
Yes. And refusing to move your best corner to the best receiver when prudent. And for not going heavy in obvious running situations. And for not selling out on the run when you played Pitts. And ignoring the fact that it's okay to blitz in the appropriate situations. (Carr should have been hammered and the Oakland game should have been a win.) And refusing to move another CB outside when the starter (Acker) is getting torched repeatedly. Or NOT moving your best pass rusher around to attack the offense. Has anyone heard any player go out of their way to say something good about Sutton or the scheme? Maybe I missed it. Seems to happen on the offensive side of the ball and special teams. Not so much on defense.
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Old 11-06-2017, 02:02 PM   #457
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By mostly do you mean the 6 or the 3?....
I mean the consistently poor decision making, playcalling, and clock management in meaningful moments of big games. Winning a bunch of regular season games really doesn't matter if it always ends with an excruciating early playoff loss.

If you shit your pants at work every day at 4:55, nobody's going to give you credit for not shitting your pants for the first 7 hours and 55 minutes. Nor should they!!!
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Old 11-06-2017, 02:07 PM   #458
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Good call. Forgotten they were that high for 2 years. But they were also 24th for 2 years and 31st this year. I would love to know how many times they dropped Houston into coverage in the good years. And how many times they stuck with a 3 man rush on passing downs in the good years. All compared with this year. Maybe my memory isn't the greatest, but I don't ever remember the defensive scheme looking so lost. When is the last time the Chiefs' defense ranked 31st or 32nd?

Bottom line it's not just players or coaches. It's both. We can't change the players right now. So improve the coaches/coaching/DC. Not sure what else the team can do to improve the defense. Isn't the whole point to keep getting better? Can't get much worse than 31.
We can agree it's talent and coaching.

The issue is unless the problem is purely playcalling (it's not) than not a whole lot can be done by now. I don't think Gibbs would successfully scrap an entire system in a week.

They need to ride or die with Sutton and completely change focus in the winter.
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Old 11-06-2017, 02:19 PM   #459
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We can agree it's talent and coaching.

The issue is unless the problem is purely playcalling (it's not) than not a whole lot can be done by now. I don't think Gibbs would successfully scrap an entire system in a week.

They need to ride or die with Sutton and completely change focus in the winter.
Whether it's Gibbs or someone else, the whole system does not need to be scrapped. But you have to try to improve this defense. Hell, if Andy can impart the message to Sutton and make him change, keep Sutton. But after 9 games, I don't see Sutton changing it up. So a change in coaching might just invigorate this team and provide some motivation in addition to fixing the coaching gaps on defense. Keep the same scheme, just make adjustments. Many of the needed adjustments have been addressed in this thread. And then if they want to change focus/scheme completely in the off season....have at it.
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Old 11-06-2017, 02:22 PM   #460
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There's only so much minor tweaking you can do.

This D has a philosophy problem and a problem with handling fundamental Defensive playing.

This D is what it is mostly by now and to rid the funk they beed some wholesale changes and a new identity.
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Old 11-06-2017, 02:26 PM   #461
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By mostly do you mean the 6 or the 3?....


Or the 1-4.
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Old 11-06-2017, 02:26 PM   #462
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There's only so much minor tweaking you can do.

This D has a philosophy problem and a problem with handling fundamental Defensive playing.

This D is what it is mostly by now and to rid the funk they beed some wholesale changes and a new identity.


Yeah 5 years of this defense is enough.
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Old 11-06-2017, 02:46 PM   #463
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What kind of talent luxury pool do you think Sutton was swimming in? Berry has been injured over half of the games the past 4 years. Houston has mostly been injured and been a shell of himself in the playoffs. DJ had season ending injuries twice. Poe has been battling back injuries the past few years. In 2014, we had a solid defense losing Berry and DJ the first game of the season. A few years ago, we limped into the playoffs without Houston and Hali. Last year, we limped into the playoffs without DJ, mauga, Bailey, Howard, and Houston coming back at 80% for the playoffs.

I seriously don't understand the insistence that this defense has been crazy talented or that we can't field a defense with lesser talented. For a defense with stars players that can't stay on the field, this D has been pretty consistently good the past 4 years. This year is a unique problem.

Our defense in the playoffs:
Indy loss. Totally unacceptable from the D
Texans win: Great defense here.
Patriots loss: allowed 27 points...Patriots only had the ball for 22 minutes. So 1.2 points per minute
Steelers loss: Yeah...

Neither side of the balk has ever been insanely talented by but the defense has had more talent for longer. And let's face it the bulk of our cap is tied up in defense
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Old 11-06-2017, 04:35 PM   #464
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Coaching fixes tackling. Gap integrity as well.

Coaching also corrects what you suck at, and plays to your strengths and works as hard as possible to mask weakness.

Our players aren’t this bad. We have some tremendous players on our defense.
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Old 11-06-2017, 04:44 PM   #465
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Good chance players doze off when Sutton explains his schemes in the weekly D meeting. We need someone fiery!
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