Chiefs Greg Rosenthal's worst contracts of free agency so far, guess who is first? - Page 3

htismaqe · 03-23-2021, 07:50 AM

https://www.nfl.com/news/2021-nfl-fr...ven-out-so-far

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This isn't about Thuney, who is clearly a quality guard. It's about value and need and, maybe, using free agency as an emotional rebound after a devastating Super Bowl loss. In a year of relatively low prices on the market, Thuney earned more guaranteed money ($50.9 million) than Trent Williams ($45.1 million) or any other free agent available. The history of guards changing places in free agency and proceeding to earn their money is spotty. While this is true at most positions, guards still rely on teammates and coaches so much that even a good one can get lost without the right support.
Part of my reasoning for listing Thuney here is that the Chiefs have done a laudable job coaching up and finding bargains at the position in the last five years. They paid for tackles, had big misses and some hits at guard and rode that to one of the best offenses in the league. When the tackles were injured this year, it all fell apart. But while the Chiefs' general approach to pay on the edges made sense, Thuney's signing this offseason only seemed to prevent the Chiefs from going the extra mile in their pursuit of Williams, who ended up sticking in San Francisco.

Oh and don't miss Bucky Brooks' latest masterpiece:

Teams should FEAR the new Patriots...

https://www.nfl.com/news/patriots-th...-agent-signing

Chris Meck · 03-23-2021, 08:48 AM

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Originally Posted by htismaqe

I think the Chiefs are looking to get stronger at the point of attack, for one. I think they're trying to prevent the interior pocket from getting pushed in so that Patrick stops retreating so far. Our tackles were good but they were also forced to hold blocks unconventionally. A tackle is supposed to route edge defenders PAST the pocket and when the interior gets pushed, it disrupts the entire outside blocking process.

I'm certainly down for that change in philosophy. It's been really frustrating not being able to get a ****ing yard on the ground when they need it as well as just being kind of 'soft' on the interior in general, even in pass-pro.

yes, we have Mahomes, but it's still football.

htismaqe · 03-23-2021, 08:50 AM

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Originally Posted by dallaschiefsfan

This makes sense to me from what I saw visually. And - correct me if I'm thinking wrong - but you don't need all-world tackles to direct edge rushers around a pocket that's consistently clean much closer to the line of scrimmage?

You still want good tackles. If they get pushed in instead of re-routing, that won't work. But you've got the right idea. You just need guys to adequately get in the way most of the time.

htismaqe · 03-23-2021, 08:53 AM

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Originally Posted by louie aguiar

I believe the contract is the highest in NFL history for a guard. Seems pretty massive to me.

That's a transitory condition. In two years, it won't even be close to the highest in NFL history.

htismaqe · 03-23-2021, 08:56 AM

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Originally Posted by O.city

I don't think under any circumstance they have Niang at LT

He has all the tools to play LT.

He didn't play RT at Baylor because he couldn't play LT. He played RT because they had an entrenched starter at LT for the time he was there.

O.city · 03-23-2021, 09:01 AM

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Originally Posted by htismaqe

He has all the tools to play LT.

He didn't play RT at Baylor because he couldn't play LT. He played RT because they had an entrenched starter at LT for the time he was there.

I don't know that he has the overall athleticism you'd like to have there, but he could probably do it.

htismaqe · 03-23-2021, 09:04 AM

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Originally Posted by O.city

I don't know that he has the overall athleticism you'd like to have there, but he could probably do it.

He absolutely does.

The only real criticism is that he was injured and hasn't played LT since high school so his footwork would have to be changed/improved. He has the physical tools, just not the reps.

MahomesMagic · 03-23-2021, 09:07 AM

Yes, maybe Reid is adapting. I didn't expect a guard to be paid that much either..it does look like a change.

I always thought with the modern, spread offenses like KC the best way to defeat them is up the middle. You want to create pressure up the middle, attack directly because otherwise you get stretched too thin horizontally by Reid's scheme and then it also breaks vertically.

Not only that, look at our QB! When you have a guy with his vision and mobility just make sure he has a pocket and he can slip out if a tackle breaks down or step up into the pocket.

Then you add the advantage of running the ball better to punish the teams overplaying the pass.

There's a lot that can happen with this but you have to think there is larger plan in place.

Chris Meck · 03-23-2021, 09:13 AM

I'll say this-

I feel a lot better about inexperienced tackles playing next to Thuney and Long than Alegretti and Wylie.

You're not going to beat Thuney often, or Long if he's healthy. The OT's just have to not get beat inside and ride their guys out wide and deep.

It simplifies things quite a bit.

TEX · 03-23-2021, 09:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by htismaqe

He has all the tools to play LT.

He didn't play RT at Baylor because he couldn't play LT. He played RT because they had an entrenched starter at LT for the time he was there.

Did he go to Baylor? I thought he went to TCU?

htismaqe · 03-23-2021, 09:15 AM

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Originally Posted by TEX

Did he go to Baylor? I thought he went to TCU?

Sorry, TX schools. He went to TCU.

htismaqe · 03-23-2021, 09:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Meck

I'll say this-

I feel a lot better about inexperienced tackles playing next to Thuney and Long than Alegretti and Wylie.

You're not going to beat Thuney often, or Long if he's healthy. The OT's just have to not get beat inside and ride their guys out wide and deep.

It simplifies things quite a bit.

Yep.

How many times did we see Fisher get beat inside? That happens when the guy next to you isn't very good.

TEX · 03-23-2021, 09:18 AM

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Originally Posted by htismaqe

Sorry, TX schools. He went to TCU.

Ok - now I feel better about my memory. Especially with me living in TX...

MahomesMagic · 03-23-2021, 09:21 AM

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Originally Posted by htismaqe

Yep.

How many times did we see Fisher get beat inside? That happens when the guy next to you isn't very good.

I remember Buffalo drafted Dion Dawkins in the 2nd round in 2017. Rookie that most people pegged as a guard/tackle tweener.

He started next to Incognito and had a very strong rookie year.

Then Incognito left and his play dropped a bit before coming back.

It absolutely is important who you are playing next to. Top guards cover up mistakes. Even from their tackles.

htismaqe · 03-23-2021, 09:23 AM

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Originally Posted by TEX

Ok - now I feel better about my memory. Especially with me living in TX...

Your memory is obviously better than mine!

htismaqe · 03-23-2021, 09:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MahomesMagic

I remember Buffalo drafted Dion Dawkins in the 2nd round in 2017. Rookie that most people pegged as a guard/tackle tweener.

He started next to Incognito and had a very strong rookie year.

Then Incognito left and his play dropped a bit before coming back.

It absolutely is important who you are playing next to. Top guards cover up mistakes. Even from their tackles.

He played next to Quentin Spain in 2019, Spain had a solid season, and Dawkins got a 4 year deal worth $15M per afterwards. That's how it works.

03-23-2021, 09:07 AM	#37
MahomesMagic Generational Player Join Date: May 2017 Location: Honolulu Casino cash: $3860400	Yes, maybe Reid is adapting. I didn't expect a guard to be paid that much either..it does look like a change. I always thought with the modern, spread offenses like KC the best way to defeat them is up the middle. You want to create pressure up the middle, attack directly because otherwise you get stretched too thin horizontally by Reid's scheme and then it also breaks vertically. Not only that, look at our QB! When you have a guy with his vision and mobility just make sure he has a pocket and he can slip out if a tackle breaks down or step up into the pocket. Then you add the advantage of running the ball better to punish the teams overplaying the pass. There's a lot that can happen with this but you have to think there is larger plan in place.
Posts: 2,333	1 0

03-23-2021, 09:13 AM	#38
Chris Meck MVP Join Date: May 2001 Location: midtown KC Casino cash: $1684910	I'll say this- I feel a lot better about inexperienced tackles playing next to Thuney and Long than Alegretti and Wylie. You're not going to beat Thuney often, or Long if he's healthy. The OT's just have to not get beat inside and ride their guys out wide and deep. It simplifies things quite a bit.
Posts: 17,571	3 0