Chiefs Tom Brady May Not Be the Greatest QB Ever for Much Longer - Page 3

Mama Hip Rockets · 01-25-2021, 04:51 PM

Great piece by Jason Kirk for Slate.com

As is the case basically half the time, Tom Brady is back in the Super Bowl. This time, he’s there with a new team, the Tampa Bay Buccaneers. That means he has as many NFC championships in one try as Aaron Rodgers, Drew Brees, and Matt Ryan each have in their own dozen-plus attempts.

We all thought we might be finally rid of this guy, once he left Bill Belichick’s New England Patriots. But it turns out that adding a steady, capable, and alarmingly healthy veteran to a team with a good coaching staff, a good defense, and good offensive talent can work quite well, especially with conference rivals New Orleans and Green Bay imploding along the way.

Brady is 43 years old. He’s said he wants to play until he’s 45. Reaching a Super Bowl without Belichick, and maybe winning it, has got to be the last major milestone in his milestone-riddled career. There’s a post-Brady future on the horizon. I think. Right?

But it’s not like the NFL’s going to stop orbiting around a single quarterback once Brady is gone. Facing Brady’s team this time is reigning Super Bowl MVP Patrick Mahomes, who’s had arguably the most absurd three-year debut in American team sports history. Every few weeks, a new Mahomes stat makes you wonder if he’s going to end up tripling his predecessors, or merely doubling them.

This offseason, the Kansas City Chiefs signed Mahomes to a 10-year, $503 million deal, the biggest contract in sports history. In case that wasn’t a clear enough signal, the Chiefs’ franchise quarterback announced the news by tweeting, “We’re chasing a dynasty.”

Taken literally, that means both attempting to construct one while also pursuing the current one. Since Brady had already left the Patriots at the time of that contract, this entire season, if you like storylines, was actually about Mahomes’ Chiefs stalking Brady’s Bucs.

Win or lose against Brady in this year’s Super Bowl, there’s every reason to believe Mahomes will be back. Quite possibly several times. Maybe even a Brady-ish amount of times. There’s a real chance Super Bowl 55 is a handoff (sports term) from one generation’s championship mainstay to the next.

It’s a rare thing to already know who’ll be the league’s biggest star as soon as the league’s current biggest star is gone. That’s the easy part. The more difficult question, as always, is how to define greatness. Does GOAT mean winner-est winner? Best athlete? Most consistently excellent for the longest time? Biggest numbers? All of the above? Something else?

For a while, Brady’s contemporary in the QB GOAT debate was Peyton Manning, who usually had bigger numbers and more obvious talents, but fewer rings. Then it became the incredible and efficient Aaron Rodgers, although Rodgers has endured and/or caused more drama while staying with Green Bay than Brady did while leaving New England. Brady’s had his enormous seasons, including three MVP trophies, but his case is simple: rings, rings, and more rings. It’s hard to think of many unbelievable Brady highlights, but it’s easy to marvel at his unmatchable number of good plays in big games.

The case for someone like Manning or Rodgers takes more and more work by the year. Look at this throw. Look at that decision. Study these numbers, and pore over this footage. Let’s talk about context, from injuries to roster problems to incompetent coaches to bad luck. This side must also note how many of Brady’s biggest wins could’ve easily gone the other way, maybe even including this NFC championship against Rodgers, when the Packers chose a late field goal over letting their future Hall of Fame QB try for a touchdown.

Anyone still arguing for a non-Brady quarterback can construct a fine house of cards, held together by the most lovingly selected nuance. For most people, this house will then be crushed by RINGZ. And as a veteran of the Emmitt Smith (championships and longevity) vs. Barry Sanders (astounding human magnificence) wars, I’m confident there will remain holdouts, no matter how many titles Brady accumulates by the end.

Unless one player can become something like the best of both worlds.

Mahomes’ career ceiling is so high it’s almost impervious to hyperbole. Barring retirement or a major misfortune, we already know he’s gunning not just for the Hall of Fame, but for the Brady echelon. “If he can keep this up for 15 more years or so, he’ll have all the records” is the kind of statement that should get you laughed out of any argument, but in Mahomes’ case it’s not laughable. We might have a single player with talent like Rodgers’, command like Manning’s, and flair for the moment like Brady’s. The biggest test might be whether Mahomes has anything like Brady’s stubbornness in the face of Father Time.

That’s how good Mahomes is: He’s 25 years old, yet to reckon with his place in history we already have to talk about him as an eventual old man, to imagine how much his game might change by the time he’s 40 (if the concept of “games” even exists that long).

This isn’t exactly a prediction, but there is a 2040s scenario in which most of the millennium’s Super Bowls have featured either Brady or Mahomes or both of them. That would mean that four decades of NFL history end up being dominated by just two guys. (And, you know, their collective hundreds of really good teammates.)

It’s possible, in our 2040 world, that Mahomes has topped Brady’s career passing yardage record, and done so while also piling up more no-look, off-balance, scrambling highlights than Rodgers, Brett Favre, Lamar Jackson, Drew Brees’ various sons, or anybody else.

Just imagine. A single player having both the most rings and the best stats and the best highlights. If Brady’s on-field production makes him something like football’s Bill Russell, the winner of all winners, then Mahomes could become football’s Michael Jordan.

You know, the guy who finally resolves the GOAT debate for … OK, realistically no time at all.

https://slate.com/culture/2021/01/ma...5CDUXmXJ5zUdhA

Chiefshrink · 01-26-2021, 08:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stevieray

Well yeah, they changed the game for him (QB's). They called a flag on Jones for hitting his shoulder pad.

No way he lasts this long back in the day.

Dawson is ten times the bad ass.

Brady also benefitted from a totally weak division for a decade.

BINGO !!

What did Lambert say again? "May as well put a dress on them!"(My paraphrase here) and this was back in the late 70's!! It's gone from a dress to an actual wedding gown now !!

lcarus · 01-26-2021, 08:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eureka

Asking this question on a Chiefs forum will give a slight bias. We can all admit that.

This SB will mean a lot in that you can always say one beat the other.

Brady seems to lift the players around him and it esp shows in the Bucs team. Read what those teammates are saying about Tom. You can also say look how the Patriots performed this year without Tom. The fact is things can be argued from every different angle.

Mahomes does the same with his teammates. The Browns should've been able to win that game but the Chiefs players put themselves on the line to perform because they wanted to because Mahomes. There is an element that can't be drafted/taught/coached in those moments. IF you say the Bucs only won against the Packers because of their defense then you have to say the same for Mahomes vs the Browns.

Mahomes was out for most of the second half of the Browns game or it would've been at least a 2 TD deficit at the end.

Eureka · 01-26-2021, 08:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lcarus

Mahomes was out for most of the second half of the Browns game or it would've been at least a 2 TD deficit at the end.

Well when Tom is knocked out of a game by a XXX team he at least leaves for the season. See how that works?

Megatron96 · 01-26-2021, 10:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eureka

Asking this question on a Chiefs forum will give a slight bias. We can all admit that.

This SB will mean a lot in that you can always say one beat the other.

Brady seems to lift the players around him and it esp shows in the Bucs team. Read what those teammates are saying about Tom. You can also say look how the Patriots performed this year without Tom. The fact is things can be argued from every different angle.

Mahomes does the same with his teammates. The Browns should've been able to win that game but the Chiefs players put themselves on the line to perform because they wanted to because Mahomes. There is an element that can't be drafted/taught/coached in those moments. IF you say the Bucs only won against the Packers because of their defense then you have to say the same for Mahomes vs the Browns.

Interesting question.

Quote:

Brady seems to lift the players around him and it esp shows in the Bucs team.

I have to agree with this statement. Brady has changed the culture on that team. It was just one year ago that TB was just another FL version of the Jets or WAS or whatever; a team with no identity, no direction, and no winning culture. And nothing Bruce Arians could do could change that.

Then in comes Brady. And we all laughed when he threw a fit after forgetting it was 4th down. I know I did. Long and hard.

And maybe he wasn't even yelling at the right people.

But he was right.

To win at the highest levels everyone needs to be on the same page, and part of that is communicating. It's not just the quality of the players. If it was, then CLE would've gone to the playoffs last season, based just on the talent they had on paper. But of course, they couldn't, because they didn't know how to win. They had to find an identity before they could have a winning season.

And the same applies to TB. They went from a bumbling laughingstock of the league to a Super Bowl contender in just one season.

That team has learned how to communicate like a winning football team. To think like a winning football team. And in doing so they found their identity and they're playing like a good football team. They are unquestionably better than they were a year ago. And it appears that most of that success can be laid at the feet of Tom Brady.

Unfortunately, whatever happens in the Super Bowl, they'll be shopping for a new QB much sooner rather than later. And that might sink them back into their former mediocrity. But right now, they're the best team in the NFC. After 20 years of constant, embarrassing failure, because one QB showed them how to win.

**Tribal Warfare** · 01-26-2021, 11:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chiefshrink

BINGO !!

What did Lambert say again? "May as well put a dress on them!"(My paraphrase here) and this was back in the late 70's!! It's gone from a dress to an actual wedding gown now !!

****in chastity belt while going spread eagle

ReynardMuldrake · 01-26-2021, 11:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kgrund

Tom Brady is the Bill Russell of QBs. Likely not the best at his position, even in his prime, but a very great player for a long period of time, with great team accomplishments almost exclusively with one team. Nothing wrong being Bill Russell, but that does not mean you are Michael Jordan.

I, also, read the article.

Wallcrawler · 01-27-2021, 01:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Megatron96

Interesting question.

I have to agree with this statement. Brady has changed the culture on that team. It was just one year ago that TB was just another FL version of the Jets or WAS or whatever; a team with no identity, no direction, and no winning culture. And nothing Bruce Arians could do could change that.

Then in comes Brady. And we all laughed when he threw a fit after forgetting it was 4th down. I know I did. Long and hard.

And maybe he wasn't even yelling at the right people.

But he was right.

To win at the highest levels everyone needs to be on the same page, and part of that is communicating. It's not just the quality of the players. If it was, then CLE would've gone to the playoffs last season, based just on the talent they had on paper. But of course, they couldn't, because they didn't know how to win. They had to find an identity before they could have a winning season.

And the same applies to TB. They went from a bumbling laughingstock of the league to a Super Bowl contender in just one season.

That team has learned how to communicate like a winning football team. To think like a winning football team. And in doing so they found their identity and they're playing like a good football team. They are unquestionably better than they were a year ago. And it appears that most of that success can be laid at the feet of Tom Brady.

Unfortunately, whatever happens in the Super Bowl, they'll be shopping for a new QB much sooner rather than later. And that might sink them back into their former mediocrity. But right now, they're the best team in the NFC. After 20 years of constant, embarrassing failure, because one QB showed them how to win.

How to win against who?

They played NOBODY this season.

Their wins are laughable. Afc west? Come on. Falcons twice, Panthers twice, Lions, Vikings, Giants, Packers (also played nobody).

Losses to Saints twice, Rams , Bears(lol), and Mahomes got unleashed for a quarter before Andy felt bad and called the dogs off.

In the playoffs, they drew the Alex Smithless WFT, the upright corpse of Drew Brees, and Rodgers/Lafleur deliver one of the finest chokejobs and most horrific displays of situational football in postseason history, leading up to the refs sealing the deal with a game ending penalty.

Brady does not impress me at all with his TB performances. Any qb not colorblind, and having two broken arms with that roster and favorable playoff matchups would be in this position given strength of schedule.

Mahomes is going to bury these frauds. There wont be a ceasefire after one quarter this time. No hiding the playbook in a boring reg season game.

Tommy can teach them how to cope with losing the big game. Hes got plenty of that experience.

KC_Connection · 01-27-2021, 02:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eureka

If you say the Bucs only won against the Packers because of their defense then you have to say the same for Mahomes vs the Browns.

This statement makes no sense whatsoever.

KC_Connection · 01-27-2021, 02:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lcarus

Mahomes was out for most of the second half of the Browns game or it would've been at least a 2 TD deficit at the end.

2? It would have been 4. The Browns were bad and Mahomes was completely torching them every possession.

The Chiefs won the game primarily because Mahomes built a big enough lead before he got hurt.

Megatron96 · 01-27-2021, 02:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wallcrawler

How to win against who?

They played NOBODY this season.

Their wins are laughable. Afc west? Come on. Falcons twice, Panthers twice, Lions, Vikings, Giants, Packers (also played nobody).

Losses to Saints twice, Rams , Bears(lol), and Mahomes got unleashed for a quarter before Andy felt bad and called the dogs off.

In the playoffs, they drew the Alex Smithless WFT, the upright corpse of Drew Brees, and Rodgers/Lafleur deliver one of the finest chokejobs and most horrific displays of situational football in postseason history, leading up to the refs sealing the deal with a game ending penalty.

Brady does not impress me at all with his TB performances. Any qb not colorblind, and having two broken arms with that roster and favorable playoff matchups would be in this position given strength of schedule.

Mahomes is going to bury these frauds. There wont be a ceasefire after one quarter this time. No hiding the playbook in a boring reg season game.

Tommy can teach them how to cope with losing the big game. Hes got plenty of that experience.

I suppose that’s one way of looking at it. Well except for the part where they beat the Green Bay Packers. Who won their division, with a 13 and 3 record for the second year in a row, and were the 1-seed in the NFC. So that part of your argument falls flat on his face. But other than that.

But the fact of the matter is that just one year ago Tampa Bay was considered one of the worst teams in the NFL. Oh yeah they had plenty of talent, a lot of skilled football players, and had absolutely no concept of how to win a football game, much less have a winning season, or get into the playoffs. In fact, with a much more physically gifted quarterback last year, Tampa Bay managed to do exactly nothing, except look silly once again for the 20th year in a row?

So while it’s fair to say that Tampa Bay may not have won a lot of games against quality opponents this year, except the Green Bay Packers were the NFC champions going into that game, they did win in the playoffs, and they are in the Super Bowl. Which makes them a better team than 15 other organizations in their conference in 2020. Which is a huge turnaround from just one year ago.

And the only thing they added was 43 year old Tom Brady.

Like it or not, those are the facts.

hskerfan4life · 01-27-2021, 07:49 AM

Brady may be good, but to me he is no where near on the level of QBs like Joe Montana or Troy Aikman.

Mama Hip Rockets · 01-27-2021, 08:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hskerfan4life

Brady may be good, but to me he is no where near on the level of QBs like Joe Montana or Troy Aikman.

Troy Aikman sucks.

Wallcrawler · 01-27-2021, 11:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Megatron96

I suppose that’s one way of looking at it. Well except for the part where they beat the Green Bay Packers. Who won their division, with a 13 and 3 record for the second year in a row, and were the 1-seed in the NFC. So that part of your argument falls flat on his face. But other than that.

.

The Packers played nobody either. They beat the Saints, Titans, and the dumpsterfire Bears that somehow made the playoffs, so if you want to count Bears as a quality team, lol, then okay they have four. Four quality wins.

They were so used to rolling over trash that they forgot how to defend and execute against an actual roster.

Gifted 3 turnovers, in the title game and you heard all that noise about oh my god theyre legendary in the red zone this year how did they not get points off those turnovers?!!??

Again, when youre used to playing against trash, you pull off some things that make you look a lot better than you really are.

Brady had a better defense is what It came down to. Their "savior" Brady did his best to lose that game in the second half.

But i guess if the other team chokes and the coach has no idea about situational football, thats somehow due to Brady also?

That horseshit game ending PI, and the non call that should have negated an interception for the Bucs that led to the most idiotic defensive call since Jets V Raiders leading to a last second td was im sure.

The difference between this years team and last for TB is that Tom brought some influence with the officials with him, and he elected not to throw THIRTY THREE ****ing interceptions with nearly a third of them going back for 6.

Jameis would still be the qb of this team if he wasnt colorblind and stupid. 33 INT with a shit ton going back for 6 makes a laughing stock out of anyone.

Those are your facts.

Mile High Mania · 01-27-2021, 11:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hskerfan4life

Brady may be good, but to me he is no where near on the level of QBs like Joe Montana or Troy Aikman.

comochiefsfan · 01-27-2021, 12:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mile High Mania

Aikman watching Mahomes already win 66% of his Super Bowl rings:

01-25-2021, 04:51 PM
Mama Hip Rockets You don't faze me, Gobble. Join Date: Dec 2005 Casino cash: $10005644	Tom Brady May Not Be the Greatest QB Ever for Much Longer Great piece by Jason Kirk for Slate.com As is the case basically half the time, Tom Brady is back in the Super Bowl. This time, he’s there with a new team, the Tampa Bay Buccaneers. That means he has as many NFC championships in one try as Aaron Rodgers, Drew Brees, and Matt Ryan each have in their own dozen-plus attempts. We all thought we might be finally rid of this guy, once he left Bill Belichick’s New England Patriots. But it turns out that adding a steady, capable, and alarmingly healthy veteran to a team with a good coaching staff, a good defense, and good offensive talent can work quite well, especially with conference rivals New Orleans and Green Bay imploding along the way. Brady is 43 years old. He’s said he wants to play until he’s 45. Reaching a Super Bowl without Belichick, and maybe winning it, has got to be the last major milestone in his milestone-riddled career. There’s a post-Brady future on the horizon. I think. Right? But it’s not like the NFL’s going to stop orbiting around a single quarterback once Brady is gone. Facing Brady’s team this time is reigning Super Bowl MVP Patrick Mahomes, who’s had arguably the most absurd three-year debut in American team sports history. Every few weeks, a new Mahomes stat makes you wonder if he’s going to end up tripling his predecessors, or merely doubling them. This offseason, the Kansas City Chiefs signed Mahomes to a 10-year, $503 million deal, the biggest contract in sports history. In case that wasn’t a clear enough signal, the Chiefs’ franchise quarterback announced the news by tweeting, “We’re chasing a dynasty.” Taken literally, that means both attempting to construct one while also pursuing the current one. Since Brady had already left the Patriots at the time of that contract, this entire season, if you like storylines, was actually about Mahomes’ Chiefs stalking Brady’s Bucs. Win or lose against Brady in this year’s Super Bowl, there’s every reason to believe Mahomes will be back. Quite possibly several times. Maybe even a Brady-ish amount of times. There’s a real chance Super Bowl 55 is a handoff (sports term) from one generation’s championship mainstay to the next. It’s a rare thing to already know who’ll be the league’s biggest star as soon as the league’s current biggest star is gone. That’s the easy part. The more difficult question, as always, is how to define greatness. Does GOAT mean winner-est winner? Best athlete? Most consistently excellent for the longest time? Biggest numbers? All of the above? Something else? For a while, Brady’s contemporary in the QB GOAT debate was Peyton Manning, who usually had bigger numbers and more obvious talents, but fewer rings. Then it became the incredible and efficient Aaron Rodgers, although Rodgers has endured and/or caused more drama while staying with Green Bay than Brady did while leaving New England. Brady’s had his enormous seasons, including three MVP trophies, but his case is simple: rings, rings, and more rings. It’s hard to think of many unbelievable Brady highlights, but it’s easy to marvel at his unmatchable number of good plays in big games. The case for someone like Manning or Rodgers takes more and more work by the year. Look at this throw. Look at that decision. Study these numbers, and pore over this footage. Let’s talk about context, from injuries to roster problems to incompetent coaches to bad luck. This side must also note how many of Brady’s biggest wins could’ve easily gone the other way, maybe even including this NFC championship against Rodgers, when the Packers chose a late field goal over letting their future Hall of Fame QB try for a touchdown. Anyone still arguing for a non-Brady quarterback can construct a fine house of cards, held together by the most lovingly selected nuance. For most people, this house will then be crushed by RINGZ. And as a veteran of the Emmitt Smith (championships and longevity) vs. Barry Sanders (astounding human magnificence) wars, I’m confident there will remain holdouts, no matter how many titles Brady accumulates by the end. Unless one player can become something like the best of both worlds. Mahomes’ career ceiling is so high it’s almost impervious to hyperbole. Barring retirement or a major misfortune, we already know he’s gunning not just for the Hall of Fame, but for the Brady echelon. “If he can keep this up for 15 more years or so, he’ll have all the records” is the kind of statement that should get you laughed out of any argument, but in Mahomes’ case it’s not laughable. We might have a single player with talent like Rodgers’, command like Manning’s, and flair for the moment like Brady’s. The biggest test might be whether Mahomes has anything like Brady’s stubbornness in the face of Father Time. That’s how good Mahomes is: He’s 25 years old, yet to reckon with his place in history we already have to talk about him as an eventual old man, to imagine how much his game might change by the time he’s 40 (if the concept of “games” even exists that long). This isn’t exactly a prediction, but there is a 2040s scenario in which most of the millennium’s Super Bowls have featured either Brady or Mahomes or both of them. That would mean that four decades of NFL history end up being dominated by just two guys. (And, you know, their collective hundreds of really good teammates.) It’s possible, in our 2040 world, that Mahomes has topped Brady’s career passing yardage record, and done so while also piling up more no-look, off-balance, scrambling highlights than Rodgers, Brett Favre, Lamar Jackson, Drew Brees’ various sons, or anybody else. Just imagine. A single player having both the most rings and the best stats and the best highlights. If Brady’s on-field production makes him something like football’s Bill Russell, the winner of all winners, then Mahomes could become football’s Michael Jordan. You know, the guy who finally resolves the GOAT debate for … OK, realistically no time at all. https://slate.com/culture/2021/01/ma...5CDUXmXJ5zUdhA
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01-27-2021, 07:49 AM	#41
hskerfan4life Rookie Join Date: Jan 2021 Location: Omaha, NE Casino cash: $10000400	Brady may be good, but to me he is no where near on the level of QBs like Joe Montana or Troy Aikman.
Posts: 2