To the Herm haters.

[kcbubb]

I'm tired of all the blame going to Herm. Yes, Herm had his share of blunders but the amount of hate that he gets is ridiculous. The biggest mistake that Herm made was underestimating the impact of Jared Allen. And I did too at the time. In 2007, the Chiefs almost had a top 10 defense despite their terrible offense. We know what happened in 2008. But we are quick to forget the defense of 2007. I'm not saying the Herm was a great coach, but he is not as bad as some here believe.

Just to irritate you, lets take a look at what might have been if Herm had stuck around.

-First the acquisition of Cassell never happens. Herm sticks with Thigpen and Gailey runs the system that worked well in the latter half of the season.

-The switch to the 3-4 never happens and the Chiefs continue to run a 4-3 defense.

-Most likely, no notable free agents are picked up.

-Tony Gonzalez remains with the Chiefs.

-The draft rolls around and Herm takes the safe route as usual and picks the following players:

1. Aaron Curry
2. Everette Brown (Herm likes this pick bc of the desperate need for a pass rusher to replace Jared Allen who was lost in 07 and the success of another small DE Dwight Freeney with the Colts where his role model Tony Dungy coached.)
3. Antione Caldwell (Mal Moore leadership award winner is drafted here) Herm kinda player. And can play all line positions but primarily C or G.
4. Louis Murphy (Herm picks a wide out for the needed depth and Murphy provide some speed.)
5. Jasper Brinkley (Tough middle linebacker probably starts.)
6. Andrew Gardner (RT tackle pushes or replaces McIntosh)
7. Captain Munnerlyn (CB and returner)
7. Ricky Jean-Francois (depth at DT)
7. Ryan Succop K


And to top it off. After speaking with Tony Dungy about Michael Vick, who has been mentoring Vick, Herm trusts Dungy and decides to give Vick a shot at backing up Tyler Thigpen.


Would all of this happened... probably not, but it is interesting to think about what might have been if Herm and Carl would have stayed. Again, I don't think Herm is great and I definitely don't think Carl was good, but I do wonder what might have happened. I do like the draft above much better than our current one, and I do like that we still would have Tony G.

[The Bad Guy]

It's remarkable he kept such a tight locker room? He made it a country club for those losing mother ****ers. He never made them accountable because he never made himself accountable. It was a completely lax lockerroom because all those assholes were doing was collecting a paycheck. Why would they make waves?

It's remarkable to me that you keep singing the same bullshit tune.

What is also hilarious is that you keep banging the drum about how this team should have been gutted when Herm first got here. Herm KNEW the state of this team when he signed on. He knew how stubborn Carl was. You act like he was held hostage. He got himself in this mess and you want to keep making excuses about it.

[The Bad Guy]

Originally Posted by milkman

Are you telling me that you think that Dorsey, Hali, Tyler, McBride, Page and Pollard are all going to transition to the the 34 defense?

Is that what you're telling me?

Most of these guys, because of Herman ****ing Edwards failure as the coach of the Kansas City Chiefs will now be put in a better position to succeed when they are either traded or released.

No matter how you try to spin it, Herman ****ing Edwards stint is a failure of more than epic proportions.

Sing it brother, sing it.

[chiefzilla1501]

Originally Posted by The Bad Guy

It's remarkable he kept such a tight locker room? He made it a country club for those losing mother ****ers. He never made them accountable because he never made himself accountable.

It's remarkable to me that you keep singing the same bullshit tune.

What is also hilarious is that you keep banging the drum about how this team should have been gutted when Herm first got here. Herm KNEW the state of this team when he signed on. He knew how stubborn Carl was. You act like he was held hostage. He got himself in this mess and you want to keep making excuses about it.

Oh please. Carl Peterson got out of a relationship where he was in a practical lovefest with Vermeil. He showered him with players, respect, and the two clearly left on great terms. Herm walked into the Chiefs as great friends with Peterson. It certainly didn't seem that way when they left. Peterson had a reputation for giving his coaches what they wanted. So yes, I think Herm was very surprised when he learned that Peterson wouldn't do it.

And give me a break about the locker room being a country club. Even during a losing season, the players played their hearts out. You rarely ever see that. Nor do you hear a lot of stories about players bitching or doing stupid stuff off the field. Like I said, I think he assembled a pretty good, hard working group of kids. It simply amazes me how even on the smallest of levels, you outright refuse to believe that Herm did ANYTHING remotely positive for this team.

[kstater]

Recall that Albert's start at LT was largely due to a ballsy move by Herm to declare Albert the starter and move McIntosh to RT,

What the hell?

[chiefzilla1501]

Originally Posted by milkman

Are you telling me that you think that Dorsey, Hali, Tyler, McBride, Page and Pollard are all going to transition to the the 34 defense?

Is that what you're telling me?

Most of these guys, because of Herman ****ing Edwards failure as the coach of the Kansas City Chiefs will now be put in a better position to succeed when they are either traded or released.

No matter how you try to spin it, Herman ****ing Edwards stint is a failure of more than epic proportions.

Yeah, but listen to the ridiculousness of your accusation.
"Most of these guys, because of Herman ****ing Edwards failure as the coach of the Kansas City Chiefs will now be put in a better position to succeed when they are either traded or released."
You're saying that Herm Edwards did a poor job of building a foundation... because he wasn't able to develop players for a 3-4? Listen to yourself. You don't think that claim is slightly ridiculous? I agree that the shift to the 3-4 makes it less likely that some of these bright young players will develop into quality player... as Chiefs. But most of your argument suggests that Herm left this team an absolute mess without regard to the idea that if a new GM chose to stick with a 4-3, this team wouldn't be in nearly as big of a mess.

Again, I'm in full support of a 3-4. But the decision to switch to an entirely different defense shouldn't reflect on Herm's ability to evaluate talent.

[The Bad Guy]

You have to be a Herm relative.

[The Bad Guy]

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501

Again, I'm in full support of a 3-4. But the decision to switch to an entirely different defense shouldn't reflect on Herm's ability to evaluate talent.

His ability to evaluate talent sucks shit. This defense regressed every year he was here.

Keep making up stuff to suit your arguments, genius.

[chiefzilla1501]

Originally Posted by milkman

Are you telling me that you think that Dorsey, Hali, Tyler, McBride, Page and Pollard are all going to transition to the the 34 defense?

Is that what you're telling me?

Most of these guys, because of Herman ****ing Edwards failure as the coach of the Kansas City Chiefs will now be put in a better position to succeed when they are either traded or released.

No matter how you try to spin it, Herman ****ing Edwards stint is a failure of more than epic proportions.

And for the record.... the personnel decisions only affect our defensive line. I think DJ and Demorrio Williams will transition nicely into the interior. The safeties will be MUCH better, now that they don't have to cover an insane amount of real estate. And we've got a really solid core of young corners like Flowers, Carr, and Leggett... and now Donald Washington too. On the D-line side, you're absolutely right that there is going to be some waste there. I personally doubt that Hali and Turk are going to be phased out.

But again... you say that if we keep a small group of core players, then the entire Herm stint is wasted. I don't agree with that at all. Again, the decision to gut the team entirely was a really bold one. And it was a move that puts us in a far more favorable cap position and doesn't force us to give preference to a bunch of older veterans who have a sense of entitlement. If anything, the moves made in 2008 give Pioli a lot of flexibility to quickly make this team his own.

[Bwana]

.

[chiefzilla1501]

Originally Posted by The Bad Guy

His ability to evaluate talent sucks shit. This defense regressed every year he was here.

Keep making up stuff to suit your arguments, genius.

The defense did not regress every year. 2006 was better than 2005. 2007 was better than 2006. We regressed in 2008 because our arrogant piece of shit General Manager traded away our best pass rusher. And again, we're not talking about overall performance. We're talking about the talent level of the players within that defense.

I hated Gunther more than anybody and I think he did a terrific job of getting the least out of the talent he was given. If the Chiefs kept Allen and replaced Gunther, this defense would have been a lot better in 2008.

[LaChapelle]

LJ pick and Robinson dumping were figments of my imagination.

[kstater]

I'm still trying to figure out how it was a "ballsy" move to start a guy drafted to be a franchise LT at LT.

[milkman]

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501

Yeah, but listen to the ridiculousness of your accusation.
"Most of these guys, because of Herman ****ing Edwards failure as the coach of the Kansas City Chiefs will now be put in a better position to succeed when they are either traded or released."
You're saying that Herm Edwards did a poor job of building a foundation... because he wasn't able to develop players for a 3-4? Listen to yourself. You don't think that claim is slightly ridiculous? I agree that the shift to the 3-4 makes it less likely that some of these bright young players will develop into quality player... as Chiefs. But most of your argument suggests that Herm left this team an absolute mess without regard to the idea that if a new GM chose to stick with a 4-3, this team wouldn't be in nearly as big of a mess.

Again, I'm in full support of a 3-4. But the decision to switch to an entirely different defense shouldn't reflect on Herm's ability to evaluate talent.

The argument you are making is that Herman ****ing Edwards built a foundation for this team, that this team is in better shape because of Herman ****ing Edwards draft.

You didn't qualify that argument by saying that this team theoretically would have been in better shape because off Herman ****ing Edwards drafts if Clark Hunt had hired a different GM, who in turn would have hired a different HC who was commited to the 43 defense.

My argument is based on the assertion without the qaulification, because I can only argue the points you make, not the thoughts you failed to write.

But your argument is still nonsequitur, because at the end of the day, this team is still worse when Herman ****ing Edwards left than what it was when he took over, and there are only ab out 3-4 players from his drafts that will be a part of the foundation of the team that Pioli-Haley are going to build.

[WilliamTheIrish]

Originally Posted by zilla

Herm walked into the Chiefs as great friends with Peterson....

You should have just stoppped right there. Or ended the post with "And left a loser, foot shuffling porter adn go-zillionaire...."

Herm knew CP. He knew exactly what he was getting into with CP and the state of the franchise. He took the money. Herm failed. Totally and completely.

You can run all the speculation up the flagpole you feel that's warranted, but the bottom line is Herm FAILed. Although he was spectacular in his FAILing.

Anyway, you can waste precious O2 on this scintillating subject for eternity, but camp has started and I'd prefer to look ahead to future FAILing rather than rehash past EPIC FAILing.

Good luck.

[wild1]

Herm was here for 3 years, the team went from mediocre to one of the most pathetic franchises in the league over that time. No playoff wins, no appreciable progress in any area. The only thing we can thank him for is that his suckage was finally enough to unseat Carl.

Maybe you are into excuses, I'm not. I'm into results, and his results were 100% negative