Fire Bob Sutton

[petegz28]

That is all.

[OlineDline]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

Basic military leadership says that if you have your troops on their heels, it's time to affix bayonets and attack. Do SOMETHING to override the malaise. And instead Sutton doubled down and had them digging trenches. Jesus that was bad.

You DO NOT "fix bayonets" and attack (blitz) Rivers. He is one of, if not THE best, at beating blitzes.

You have to beat Rivers by getting pressure with 4 (see first half).

You also have to have personnel.

Christ, the 4th and 8 throw was UNGUARDABLE and btw Gates was actually open mirroring Benjamin on the other seam. That's not on Sutton.

[O.city]

Originally Posted by OlineDline

You DO NOT "fix bayonets" and attack (blitz) Rivers. He is one of, if not THE best, at beating blitzes.

You have to beat Rivers by getting pressure with 4 (see first half).

You also have to have personnel.

Christ, the 4th and 8 throw was UNGUARDABLE and btw Gates was actually open mirroring Benjamin on the other seam. That's not on Sutton.

He had his safeties 25 yards off the ball standing in cover 2. That's gonna be on your DC.

[O.city]

You get rivers off his spot and he'll throw you the ball. See the 1st half.

[OlineDline]

Originally Posted by O.city

He had his safeties 25 yards off the ball standing in cover 2. That's gonna be on your DC.

Yes. If you're gonna attack Sutton it's for going 2 shell instead of 1.

How is 1 better?

At best you can add a hole player, but that wouldn't have changed the play.

It sucks, but that particular play was unstoppable. Rivers runs that 10 more times it's incomplete 9 of them.

[OlineDline]

Originally Posted by O.city

You get rivers off his spot and he'll throw you the ball. See the 1st half.

This.

But you can't do it with 5. You have to do it with 4 or 3.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by OlineDline

You DO NOT "fix bayonets" and attack (blitz) Rivers. He is one of, if not THE best, at beating blitzes.

You have to beat Rivers by getting pressure with 4 (see first half).

You also have to have personnel.

Christ, the 4th and 8 throw was UNGUARDABLE and btw Gates was actually open mirroring Benjamin on the other seam. That's not on Sutton.

The Chiefs sent multiple rushers several times in the first half to great success. They did it ONCE in the second half. Once.

And no, calling a play 'unstoppable' when the help over the top was effectively non-existent due to the depth of the shell is just inaccurate. There are a dozen different things that can happen in if you have someone else with a chance to make a play on the ball including simply deterring Rivers from even attempting that throw.

But we played so passively and so deep that we were just giving him throwing lanes all day and presented no real risk of forcing him into a mistake.

There was a marked distinction in energy level and approach in the 2nd half vs. the 1st. It wasn't just Rivers dialing it in.

[OlineDline]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

There was a marked distinction in energy level and approach in the 2nd half vs. the 1st. It wasn't just Rivers dialing it in.

We agree here.

The rest we'll just have to agree to disagree.

[Sweet Daddy Hate]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

Man, the more and more review you do of that SD game...

Ugh, it was bad. It was bad on so many fronts. I just don't have the stomach to list them but it was a ceiling to floor failure of leadership, accountability and yes - scheme. Or at least the philosophy on how to implement it.

At several points throughout this season I've defended Sutton's game-calling as adequate to even good, but that Chargers game, especially the 2nd half, is just an absolute disaster.

It's pretty damn disheartening, to be honest. It makes it hard to not be fatalistic about the post-season. I mean I don't understand how the team could play with so little energy in that half. I don't understand how Suttons response to that lack of energy is to effectively change nothing from a personnel standpoint AND go into a shell.

Basic military leadership says that if you have your troops on their heels, it's time to affix bayonets and attack. Do SOMETHING to override the malaise. And instead Sutton doubled down and had them digging trenches. Jesus that was bad.

It's the 2nd time this season that I've really walked away from a game thinking that Sutton had directly failed that team. The other one was the Patriots game - just a bad gameplan executed poorly with little to no long-term accountability. We just saw 2.0 on that game and I just see no reason to believe that we'll get through 2 or 3 post-season games without seeing version 3 pop up. And the first time it does, the season's over.

Man...that game is just soul-crushing the more you dig into it.

Thanks for the work you do in going over this stuff with a fine tooth comb; it helps us all get a better perspective on things. I've heard people counter that Sutton makes the correct call/adjustment, but the players can not execute. Now it seems as if more and more people are beginning to call out his scheming.
Whatever the case may be, I would prefer to start fresh with a new coach and a new scheme if need be.

[suzzer99]

Why not try a jailbreak blitz when we had then at 4th and 8 midfield? The Pats did it to us on a huge 3rd down and it worked. The Ravens did it to us and it worked until the last drive when we were close to the EZ.

I don't buy that "Rivers is a master, he will pick the blitz apart". Maybe, maybe not. If he can't find a throwing lane I don't care how much of a master he is. Especially if he's not expecting it.

And the worst case scenario is we give up a first down - which happened anyway with our dumbass 2 high safeties 20 yards downfield covering for the bomb defense. Seriously - what the **** was that? Risk the bomb to stop them and win the game. If they do hit the bomb at least that gives Mahomes some time for a game winner.

Dumb dumb dumb. We basically played so Rivers could have one last drive. Of course we didn't predict they'd go for it. Maybe next time we will.

[OlineDline]

Originally Posted by Sweet Daddy Hate

Thanks for the work you do in going over this stuff with a fine tooth comb; it helps us all get a better perspective on things. I've heard people counter that Sutton makes the correct call/adjustment, but the players can not execute. Now it seems as if more and more people are beginning to call out his scheming.
Whatever the case may be, I would prefer to start fresh with a new coach and a new scheme if need be.

That's all well and good, but there's a pretty finite scheme realm in the NFL.

When you get trips open, there's only so many ****ing things you can do. People seem to think there's some guru shit that allows "exotic" and "creative" things to happen.

You want exotic? Get three or four world class DBs and just play ****ing man and blitz your tits off.

Good luck with that.

You give me three man DBs that are elite, I can be an NFL DC too!

[O.city]

It was the typical Chiefs get up 2 scores and then sit back and hope the clock runs out.

[chiefzilla1501]

Originally Posted by Mecca

Cause I'm pretty sure on that offensive drive in between the Chargers posession's he would have provided more than a run for a loss. Like it or not but his ability to always break tackles and find a crease made our sorry run blocking OL look a lot better than it really is.

But we've also seen reid refuse to run the ball in the second half. So who knows. I'm still not at all convinced hunt covers up the warts. Sutton needed to be exposed in this kind of big way. And Reid's offense can't be beyond reproach... I hate that we have this aggressive qb and Reid handcuffs him with game management bs when we get a lead.

If there's any bright side it's that you just hope Reid and hunt are seeing the massively negative response to the game and realize something. Must. Change.

[OlineDline]

Originally Posted by suzzer99

Why not try a jailbreak blitz when we had then at 4th and 8 midfield? The Pats did it to us on a huge 3rd down and it worked. The Ravens did it to us and it worked until the last drive when we were close to the EZ.

I don't buy that "Rivers is a master, he will pick the blitz apart". Maybe, maybe not. If he can't find a throwing lane I don't care how much of a master he is. Especially if he's not expecting it.

And the worst case scenario is we give up a first down - which happened anyway with our dumbass 2 high safeties 20 yards downfield covering for the bomb defense. Seriously - what the **** was that? Risk the bomb to stop them and win the game. If they do hit the bomb at least that gives Mahomes some time for a game winner.

Dumbass Bob.

Two questions?

1. How far back do NFL safeties go in 1?
2. Where do you put the extra defender you gain if you go 1 instead of 2?

[DJ's left nut]

I still don't think Reid did anything wrong on that last drive. The Chiefs had just executed one of their most clutch, methodical drives of the year to take 14 point lead and a TERRIBLE penalty put them in the shadow of their goalposts.

Yes, he ran it on 1st down and it didn't work, but they didn't need to break one off there; they needed to gain 3 yards, keep the clock rolling and stay within range of the sticks. At that point the wealth of options available to Reid can be brought to bear. He HAS to keep that clock moving and he has had an interior line getting mauled the entire 2nd half (with Fisher doing very little to help on the left side).

Trying to push downfield there would've been a mistake. And frankly, on 3rd down they WERE looking downfield past the sticks and Wylie just got beat so badly, so quickly, that there was little that could be done.

With Erving AND LDT down, their interior line is a big big BIG problem. Especially with Watkins and his ability to generate space quickly or use his phsyicality to attack the ball. You're effectively left with Kelce at that point because Hill's routes require a little more time to develop and it's time we just don't have with that patchwork interior.

So they bracket the hell out of Kelce and keep Mahomes from having the time to find Hill. What the hell else would you have Reid do at that point?

[Jerm]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

I still don't think Reid did anything wrong on that last drive. The Chiefs had just executed one of their most clutch, methodical drives of the year to take 14 point lead and a TERRIBLE penalty put them in the shadow of their goalposts.

Yes, he ran it on 1st down and it didn't work, but they didn't need to break one off there; they needed to gain 3 yards, keep the clock rolling and stay within range of the sticks. At that point the wealth of options available to Reid can be brought to bear. He HAS to keep that clock moving and he has had an interior line getting mauled the entire 2nd half (with Fisher doing very little to help on the left side).

Trying to push downfield there would've been a mistake. And frankly, on 3rd down they WERE looking downfield past the sticks and Wylie just got beat so badly, so quickly, that there was little that could be done.

With Erving AND LDT down, their interior line is a big big BIG problem. Especially with Watkins and his ability to generate space quickly or use his phsyicality to attack the ball. You're effectively left with Kelce at that point because Hill's routes require a little more time to develop and it's time we just don't have with that patchwork interior.

So they bracket the hell out of Kelce and keep Mahomes from having the time to find Hill. What the hell else would you have Reid do at that point?

The only thing I question is why we went away from the screens...we were killing them in the 1st half on those, esp. when they'd blitz.

That drive would've screamed for one IMO.