Chiefs Is it time to move on from Toub? - Page 2

ChiefBlueCFC · 11-11-2019, 09:21 AM

The Chiefs special teams have been one of the best in the NFL over the past few years, but this year they have been as bad as I can remember in a while. Is it time to move on from Dave Toub or is this on the players? Both? I know there really isn't a lot that can be done right now and I'm not sure firing Toub in the middle of the season is the right decision either. But I think there needs to be a change made in the off season.

If this is already a part of another thread, or already has its own thread, mods can delete. I didn't see it anywhere but also didn't peruse everything thread.

**Iowanian** · 11-11-2019, 10:44 AM

Wasn't Toub on the committee that made the recommendations and changes to ST blocking rules?

He sure as hell doesn't appear to have adjusted very well to the new scheme requirements of the new rules.

Mecca · 11-11-2019, 11:10 AM

Our return game is ass, special teams cost us a game yesterday...that's pretty much right there on if your job should be on the line.

**gblowfish** · 11-11-2019, 11:13 AM

Buttker was AFC Special Teams player of the week last week against Minnesota. How does he respond? He misses a PAT! The muffed snap and blocked FG attempt in the last two minutes was not his fault. I don't believe we've had a kickoff return or punt return for a TD this year, have we? That's been a big part of our success in the last few years. Toub has not done a good job this season. Is it enough to cut him loose next year? I'd say we watch the rest of this year. If it doesn't improve and fast, cut him loose.

Mecca · 11-11-2019, 11:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gblowfish

Buttker was AFC Special Teams player of the week last week against Minnesota. How does he respond? He misses a PAT! The muffed snap and blocked FG attempt in the last two minutes was not his fault. I don't believe we've had a kickoff return or punt return for a TD this year, have we? That's been a big part of our success in the last few years. Toub has not done a good job this season. Is it enough to cut him loose next year? I'd say we watch the rest of this year. If it doesn't improve and fast, cut him loose.

The Titans guy said he knew when to jump the snap because we had run the exact same kicking snap count on every single kick, how about that for coaching getting a kick blocked?

Beef Supreme · 11-11-2019, 11:59 AM

Dave Toub

oldman · 11-11-2019, 12:21 PM

The ST play has certainly declined this year. As far as the return game, keep in mind that Hill was a weapon back there, Hardman, not so much. The discipline is what bothers me most. It seems every time we receive a kickoff, some numbnut blocks in the back or is caught holding. If not, numbnut #2 will get into some kind of altercation after the play and get an unsportsman like. That is on Toub.
What's not on Toub is the muffed FG. There's no reason for 3 guys that do nothing but snap, hold, and kick the ball not to have their shit together. To make matters worse, we have a salty vet throw the ball away and get called for intentional grounding, giving up even more yardage. If you're going to get rid of the ball Dustin, drill some eligible receiver square in the ass. And change the snap count/signal while you're at it.

Rasputin · 11-11-2019, 12:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mecca

The Titans guy said he knew when to jump the snap because we had run the exact same kicking snap count on every single kick, how about that for coaching getting a kick blocked?

treeguy27 · 11-11-2019, 01:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lcarus

So here's something I've been wondering. Do they coach the special teams players to hold or block in the back on EVERY return? Because....they do. Are they just trying to get away with shit or are the players just that undisciplined?

Most of the special teams are fringe players making up the bottom of the roster. They're sitting on the sidelines most of the game dying to get in there after practicing and working all week. When they finally get their shot those few times a game, they're so amped up trying to make a play that they can't help themselves and try to do too much. It's the perfect storm for them to hold or block in the back trying to get a big play and be noticed.

I'd be perfectly happy if we don't return another kick the rest of the season. Unless it's a squib kick or is coming down at the 15 let it roll into the endzone. The risk/reward just isn't worth it since the rules changes. How many kicks throughout the league have been returned for TD's this season? Take the ball on the 25 every single time. It's not worth the fumble risk and potential for penalties setting us back to the 10 for a chance of getting out to the 30 or 35.

In58men · 11-11-2019, 01:23 PM

Toub lounge

Deberg_1990 · 11-11-2019, 01:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gblowfish

Buttker was AFC Special Teams player of the week last week against Minnesota. How does he respond? He misses a PAT! The muffed snap and blocked FG attempt in the last two minutes was not his fault. I don't believe we've had a kickoff return or punt return for a TD this year, have we? That's been a big part of our success in the last few years. Toub has not done a good job this season. Is it enough to cut him loose next year? I'd say we watch the rest of this year. If it doesn't improve and fast, cut him loose.

Butt kicker misses too many PATs for my taste.

**alpha_omega** · 11-11-2019, 01:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mecca

The Titans guy said he knew when to jump the snap because we had run the exact same kicking snap count on every single kick, how about that for coaching getting a kick blocked?

Yep, i heard that as well. He knew the snap count. 5 kicks on the same count. Coaching.

Bill Brasky · 11-11-2019, 01:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mecca

The Titans guy said he knew when to jump the snap because we had run the exact same kicking snap count on every single kick, how about that for coaching getting a kick blocked?

Switching up the snap count is some basic stuff. Pretty embarrassing.

Chief Roundup · 11-11-2019, 06:32 PM

Jesus, you guys come the **** on with this stuff.
Oh the kick got blocked. How many times has that happened again? Lets not forget that if the dude was not offsides it was the perfect get off of the snap. Changing snap count is on Colquitt not on Toub.
There have been 5, yeah that is right 3 KO returns for TD and 2 Punt returns for TD, by the entire league combined. Who is it again that we have back there again.....a rookie.
You all are some ridiculously spoiled reactionary people sometimes.

Chief Roundup · 11-11-2019, 06:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins

Chiefs were 9th in special teams DVOA going into yesterday's game. You're pointing fingers at the wrong unit.

This.

Groves · 11-11-2019, 06:51 PM

Someone explain a snap count on a FG?

I thought the long snapper snapped as soon as the holder turned his head? I thought the botched hold was from a kinda-turn-not-turn.

So from the titan quote there clearly is a FG snap count, but also a head turn. How do those work together?

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11-11-2019, 09:21 AM
ChiefBlueCFC Veteran Join Date: Aug 2018 Location: KCMO BABY Casino cash: $8070410	Is it time to move on from Toub? The Chiefs special teams have been one of the best in the NFL over the past few years, but this year they have been as bad as I can remember in a while. Is it time to move on from Dave Toub or is this on the players? Both? I know there really isn't a lot that can be done right now and I'm not sure firing Toub in the middle of the season is the right decision either. But I think there needs to be a change made in the off season. If this is already a part of another thread, or already has its own thread, mods can delete. I didn't see it anywhere but also didn't peruse everything thread.
Posts: 2,728

11-11-2019, 10:44 AM	#16
Iowanian Supporter Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Utopia Casino cash: $4578454	Wasn't Toub on the committee that made the recommendations and changes to ST blocking rules? He sure as hell doesn't appear to have adjusted very well to the new scheme requirements of the new rules.
Posts: 61,567

11-11-2019, 11:10 AM	#17
Mecca Hockey Town Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Kansas City, Missouri Casino cash: $2097050	Our return game is ass, special teams cost us a game yesterday...that's pretty much right there on if your job should be on the line.
Posts: 111,275

11-11-2019, 11:13 AM	#18
gblowfish Be Kind To Your Pets Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Glorious Independence, MO Casino cash: $17586178 VARSITY	Buttker was AFC Special Teams player of the week last week against Minnesota. How does he respond? He misses a PAT! The muffed snap and blocked FG attempt in the last two minutes was not his fault. I don't believe we've had a kickoff return or punt return for a TD this year, have we? That's been a big part of our success in the last few years. Toub has not done a good job this season. Is it enough to cut him loose next year? I'd say we watch the rest of this year. If it doesn't improve and fast, cut him loose.
Posts: 40,849

11-11-2019, 11:59 AM	#20
Beef Supreme MVP Join Date: Oct 2010 Casino cash: $10019560	Dave Toub
Posts: 11,000	1 0

11-11-2019, 12:21 PM	#21
oldman Curmudgeon Join Date: Dec 2011 Location: North by Northwest Casino cash: $5836784	The ST play has certainly declined this year. As far as the return game, keep in mind that Hill was a weapon back there, Hardman, not so much. The discipline is what bothers me most. It seems every time we receive a kickoff, some numbnut blocks in the back or is caught holding. If not, numbnut #2 will get into some kind of altercation after the play and get an unsportsman like. That is on Toub. What's not on Toub is the muffed FG. There's no reason for 3 guys that do nothing but snap, hold, and kick the ball not to have their shit together. To make matters worse, we have a salty vet throw the ball away and get called for intentional grounding, giving up even more yardage. If you're going to get rid of the ball Dustin, drill some eligible receiver square in the ass. And change the snap count/signal while you're at it.
Posts: 5,319

11-11-2019, 01:23 PM	#24
In58men Baba Ganoush Join Date: Jan 2012 Casino cash: $1758026	Toub lounge __________________ My Kansas City Chief record 9-9
Posts: 29,439

11-11-2019, 06:32 PM	#28
Chief Roundup Admitted Planet Junky Join Date: Oct 2000 Casino cash: $1531627	Jesus, you guys come the **** on with this stuff. Oh the kick got blocked. How many times has that happened again? Lets not forget that if the dude was not offsides it was the perfect get off of the snap. Changing snap count is on Colquitt not on Toub. There have been 5, yeah that is right 3 KO returns for TD and 2 Punt returns for TD, by the entire league combined. Who is it again that we have back there again.....a rookie. You all are some ridiculously spoiled reactionary people sometimes. __________________ Fanaticism is nowhere. There is no tenderness or humanity in fanaticism.
Posts: 19,245

11-11-2019, 06:51 PM	#30
Groves Turning the Corner Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Springfield, Missouri Casino cash: $1918541	Someone explain a snap count on a FG? I thought the long snapper snapped as soon as the holder turned his head? I thought the botched hold was from a kinda-turn-not-turn. So from the titan quote there clearly is a FG snap count, but also a head turn. How do those work together? Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Posts: 2,382