To the Herm haters.

[chiefzilla1501]

Originally Posted by Mecca

It's not the strategy that was flawed it's the way it was put in that was flawed...

Herms drafts were kind of shitty...the players he relied upon to be key players if you looked at them from a logical outsider point of view didn't make any sense to be put in those positions.

I don't think "shitty" is the right word to use. I think this team has a really solid young base of players that they brought in through the draft and undrafted free agent market. Too bad most of them are geared for a 4-3. Keep in mind that building a roster isn't just about putting 22 outstanding starters on the field. It's often about bringing in quality depth at every position. It's a safe play, but Turk McBride will probably be more of a contributor in the NFL than over half of the second rounders. Even if he doesn't end up being a starter (granted, the move to a 3-4 might keep that from happening).

I'm very happy with the foundation of this team. Moving to a 3-4 takes us a step back, which is fine, but the youth movement brought in a lot of what I believe will be long-term solutions for the Chiefs.

[Mecca]

Herms death nail was drafting Brodie Croyle and calling him our franchise QB. Everyone knew he would get injured, I don't know how Herm just didn't see that coming.

[chiefzilla1501]

Originally Posted by Mecca

Herms death nail was drafting Brodie Croyle and calling him our franchise QB. Everyone knew he would get injured, I don't know how Herm just didn't see that coming.

A horrible decision, but I don't think that should discount some other pretty good moves on the draft front.

[Mecca]

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501

A horrible decision, but I don't think that should discount some other pretty good moves on the draft front.

I despise the Hali, Pollard, Croyle draft so you'll have a hard time getting me to say anything nice about that one.

[chiefzilla1501]

Originally Posted by Mecca

I despise the Hali, Pollard, Croyle draft so you'll have a hard time getting me to say anything nice about that one.

No, it wasn't a good draft. But his personnel strategy as a whole was solid. Decent draft in 2007 and outstanding 2008. He gave undrafted guys like Leggett, Cox, and Barth legitimate shots at winning starting jobs. And I think a lot needs to be said for how swiftly he was willing to admit he was wrong on personnel decisions. He was wrong on Sams and Novak, but unlike Vermeil, he was swift to correct that mistake. Apart from Croyle starting, I can't think of too many situations in 2008 where I thought the wrong guy was getting PT while a better player rode the pine.

I am pretty convinced that one of the reasons Pioli was enthusiastic about taking over the Chiefs is that he knew he had a pretty good foundation on the way to being built. I think given that we started from Ground Zero in 2008, we aren't in that bad of shape.

[Mecca]

Other than switching to 3-4 makes most of the front 7 defensive personnel useless.

[chiefzilla1501]

Originally Posted by Mecca

Other than switching to 3-4 makes most of the front 7 defensive personnel useless.

I wouldn't go that far. I think Tank and Dorsey had potential to be a solid interior. And I thought Demorrio Williams and Derrick Johnson had potential to be solid on the outside, if only we had a real LBs coach. With our DEs, again, Hali is a serviceable LDE if you line him up opposite a real good pass rusher. And Turk McBride is actually a really good run-stopper--before he went down with injury, he racked up 50 tackles, which is solid for a DE. I think we were one real good MLB away and one real good DE away from having a solid 4-3 defense. Talent-wise, that is.

Again, as you've heard me say, I'm glad we're moving to a 3-4 because I think it's a better defense if built right. But I think the foundation was there for a fairly defense which was built mostly off of scraps.

[The Bad Guy]

Where is this base of really good young players? They have one really good corner, one really good WR, one really good LT and that's it.

Where is the rest of this base you speak of?

A few posts back, you actually praised the Turk McBride pick. You have the talent evaluation skills of Herm obviously.

[chiefzilla1501]

Originally Posted by The Bad Guy

Where is this base of really good young players? They have one really good corner, one really good WR, one really good LT and that's it.

Where is the rest of this base you speak of?

A few posts back, you actually praised the Turk McBride pick. You have the talent evaluation skills of Herm obviously.

Albert, Bowe, Cox and Flowers are very good players. Leggett, Page, and Dorsey have potential to be very good. Carr and Tank have upside. Turk and Hali are terrific in situational rotational roles, an underrated quality for a D-lineman. Those guys in addition to Jamaal Charles are quality depth. I personally think Pollard is becoming a better player, but if that's not your cup of tea, then Morgan has pretty good upside. And then you have guys like Rudi Niswanger, Tyler Thigpen, and Herb Taylor, who aren't fit to be starters, but they're very solid guys to have as backups. Keep in mind, again, that these are players only 1-2 years into their development. Most players don't click until about the 3rd year. That is not a bad foundation to be built in 3 years of drafts where the team spent almost nothing in free agency.

Add in that you have guys like Derrick Johnson and Demorrio Williams, who are solid guys at LB, who still have a lot of gas in their tank.

This team has a much better young foundation than they get credit for. Some of that was dismantled only because of a complete shift in defensive philosophy.

[The Bad Guy]

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501

Albert, Bowe, Cox and Flowers are very good players. Leggett, Page, and Dorsey have potential to be very good. Carr and Tank have upside. Turk and Hali are terrific in situational rotational roles, an underrated quality for a D-lineman. Those guys in addition to Jamaal Charles are quality depth. I personally think Pollard is becoming a better player, but if that's not your cup of tea, then Morgan has pretty good upside. And then you have guys like Rudi Niswanger, Tyler Thigpen, and Herb Taylor, who aren't fit to be starters, but they're very solid guys to have as backups. Keep in mind, again, that these are players only 1-2 years into their development. Most players don't click until about the 3rd year. That is not a bad foundation to be built in 3 years of drafts where the team spent almost nothing in free agency.

Add in that you have guys like Derrick Johnson and Demorrio Williams, who are solid guys at LB, who still have a lot of gas in their tank.

This team has a much better young foundation than they get credit for. Some of that was dismantled only because of a complete shift in defensive philosophy.

God you grade on a curve.

DeMorrio Williams is not a solid player. He's not even close. He's a fringe player at best.

Jarrad Page can't tackle. Leggett had about 3 good games, and Dorsey doesn't even have a position anymore.

Mike Cox a very good player? Since when? You like to throw around the very good label like it's a common thing.

My god. I'm done arguing with you.

You want to know who has a core of really good young players? Look at the Chargers, Falcons, Cardinals.

In terms of foundation, the Chiefs probably have one of the worst in the NFL.

[chiefzilla1501]

Originally Posted by The Bad Guy

God you grade on a curve.

DeMorrio Williams is not a solid player. He's not even close. He's a fringe player at best.

Jarrad Page can't tackle. Leggett had about 3 good games, and Dorsey doesn't even have a position anymore.

Mike Cox a very good player? Since when? You like to throw around the very good label like it's a common thing.

My god. I'm done arguing with you.

You want to know who has a core of really good young players? Look at the Chargers, Falcons, Cardinals.

In terms of foundation, the Chiefs probably have one of the worst in the NFL.

So we should cut all players that aren't pro bowlers. And we should give up on all players who don't show potential in one year. Got it. The fact that you think there are only 3 players worth salvaging says a lot.

And the fact that you are comparing the Chiefs to teams like the Falcons and Cardinals also says a lot. Marty Schottenheimer's team went 4-12 during their rebuild. The Falcons took several years to rebuild as well--Matt Ryan was the final piece. Most of those players on that team are players that are past the 3-year hump.

You're so desperate to find every last flaw with the previous organization that you are starting to set ridiculous standards. It's funny that everybody outside of KC thinks the Chiefs have a bright young team except you.

[The Bad Guy]

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501

So we should cut all players that aren't pro bowlers. And we should give up on all players who don't show potential in one year. Got it. The fact that you think there are only 3 players worth salvaging says a lot.

And the fact that you are comparing the Chiefs to teams like the Falcons and Cardinals also says a lot. Marty Schottenheimer's team went 4-12 during their rebuild. The Falcons took several years to rebuild as well--Matt Ryan was the final piece. Most of those players on that team are players that are past the 3-year hump.

You're so desperate to find every last flaw with the previous organization that you are starting to set ridiculous standards. It's funny that everybody outside of KC thinks the Chiefs have a bright young team except you.

I think the Chiefs have a bright future based on the people in charge, not the talent they have. I would also love for you to find fans outside of the Chiefs to name 8 good young players they have on the roster. I'll guarantee to you that they couldn't do it.

The Falcons took several years to rebuild? Since freaking when? Their rebuild started last year. Were they rebuilding with Chris Redmon? Matt Ryan the final piece? They hired a new GM, new HC and were insanely smart with all their personel decisions. That rebuild took exactly one year. They got a LT, QB, RB, MLB all in one draft. Teams rebuild all the time in the NFL. They show progress. The Chiefs regressed during their rebuild. They got worse as games went on, and the coaching mistakes were just awful.

You again are putting words in my mouth. I said the Chiefs have 3 really good players from Herm. That doesn't mean I'm gutting the entire roster. I'm also not giving out the really good label because the way you talk, this team should have been a lot better than it is if it has all these "pieces". You know who that reflects on then? Herm.

We should not cut all the players that aren't Pro Bowlers. We also shouldn't sit here and put on rose colored glasses and truly think that players like Mike Cox have established themselves as being "really good".

Ridiculous standards? Maybe you should stop lowering yours to suit your arguments.

[Mecca]

Don't worry Guardian will show up and tell us we aren't playing 3-4 even though I watched Haley and Pioli both say we are.

[big nasty kcnut]

Piss on herm.
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[TEX]

F**K Herm and anyone who supports him.