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04-25-2011, 03:51 PM | |
oxymoron
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Game of Thrones (spoiler-free zone)
A few have suggested it, might as well test the waters. The idea is to give people who haven't read the books a safe place to talk about the show.
A few quick ground rules:
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04-30-2014, 07:12 AM | #1846 |
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We already have two GoT threads. Making a third focused on criticisms seems like overkill.
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04-30-2014, 07:46 AM | #1847 | |
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Killing people off for the sake of "shock value" isn't inherently exciting. For some characters, it works really well. For others, it just gets to the point where it's not worth investing in the character because you know they're just going to get killed. And because many of the characters are so one dimensional, there isn't a ton of character development overall. Out of all of the characters they introduce, there are only a few who ever grow and change, but because there are so many, we get far less of their interesting story lines than we should. That's one reason everyone wants more Tyrion. Not only is Dinklage doing an amazing job with the acting, his character has actually gotten to develop. It makes the story more interesting when that happens. I'm just going to assume he's going to die at some point, and I'll be more okay with that because we've gotten to see real character growth from him. A character that is nothing more than an unchanging archetype is tedious and it's just not exciting when they die. |
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04-30-2014, 07:50 AM | #1848 | |
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04-30-2014, 08:27 AM | #1849 | |
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Don't worry, The Salon likes to shit on the show as well. You're in good company, Salon company.
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04-30-2014, 11:48 AM | #1850 | |
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Most of GRRM's characters are anything but one dimensional, so that just seems like a bizarre criticism to me. Part of what GRRM does so well is establish a character in your mind (i.e. Jaime throwing Bran off the tower in episode 1) and then proceed to change your perception of the character over time (i.e. most people now like Jaime). Joffrey was one of the few one dimensional characters in the show, granted, but he was hardly tedious or boring, he was really fun to hate. Just a weird take away to me I guess as I think GRRM loves to create characters that are gray rather than black or white. Even that bitch Cersei loves her kids. |
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04-30-2014, 12:01 PM | #1851 | |
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04-30-2014, 12:47 PM | #1852 |
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04-30-2014, 12:56 PM | #1853 | |
Needs more middle fingers
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Take Joffrey for example. His character development was outstanding. He starts the show as just a boy, eventual heir to the throne. Over time, he gets worse and worse and ends up being an uncontrolable murderous tyrant. Fans of the show unanimously developed an authentic hatred for his character and his death was shocking. You don't get that kind of response out of a character unless it's development was good. |
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04-30-2014, 12:58 PM | #1854 |
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Ah i see Hawk beat me to it.
Well then, Daenerys is another character with good development. She's gone from a pawn in her brother's game, to the innocent and ****able wife of a warlord, to the liberator of slaves. |
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04-30-2014, 01:12 PM | #1855 | |
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Tywin is always a ruthless dick, nothing changes. Cersei may love her kids, but she's just an angry, spiteful person, and that never changes. Has she ever done a scene without scowling? Little Finger is a manipulator, never changing. Olenna is just like Tywin, old and manipulative. Caitlyn Stark, a meddling old nag who only makes things worse whenever she intervenes. Rob Stark, the valiant hero! Margaery plays her role well, but does she ever have a thought in her brain that didn't come from her grandmother? Stannis Baratheon, a crazy ass dude seduced by a crazy ass witch (nothing changing here). Ramsey is another Joffrey, only less influential, and easier to dismiss. Brienne, strong woman with unwavering principles. Ygritte, a strong woman with a tender side. Yawn. The list goes on. None of these characters ever really develop or behave any differently than you've ever expected them to behave since they were introduced. Sometimes that works. But when you fill an entire story with them, it doesn't. Look, give me MORE Jaime. I want to see how the Kingslayer deals with becoming left handed and losing his power. I LOVED watching Tyrion go from the fantasy equivalent of an uncaring trust fund baby to someone with a small amount of power actually protecting people and trying to make a difference. Danaerys growing into her role, actually changing from an overshadowed little girl into a liberator of people and commander of men. THAT is interesting. Give me more of THAT. Creating a dynamic and then changing it. It's this change and growth that makes these characters the favorites on the show. It's for good reason. Of course, some characters are a little in-between that. Maybe Bron will finally do something out of the goodness of his heart instead of the love of money. Maybe Clegane actually grows to like Arya. I don't know. I'm not saying every character has to be a dynamic character with lots of personal growth. It doesn't have to be that way. I just want less predictability in how the characters are going to act. |
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04-30-2014, 01:17 PM | #1856 | |
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Now, he's an example of a one-dimensional character that WORKS. It is possible for that to happen. Everybody hates the Emperor in Star Wars, and it's because he's a dick. Villains lend themselves more toward one-dimensionality than other characters, although they don't always have to be so (Darth Vader). Point is, it's OKAY to have some one-dimensional characters. It works sometimes when it's done to good effect. Joffrey was done to good effect, and it was helped that the acting was top-notch. |
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04-30-2014, 01:24 PM | #1857 |
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You need a few one-dimensional characters so they can die and we can all cheer.
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04-30-2014, 01:57 PM | #1858 |
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Again, that just comes off as another specious complaint to me. It's true that several of the secondary characters are fairly one dimensional and fit into traditional archetypes, but this show is very unique in that there are so many characters in this world. Even if there is something in the source material that they could use in this regard, there just isn't the time available to commit to developing many of them. They barely have enough time to focus on the primary ones at all.
If we're talking about the show's main characters (or basically the book's POV characters), they pretty much all fit what you seem to be looking for. Tyrion, Jaime, Dany, Arya, Sansa, Bran, Theon, Davos, and Samwell are all fascinating, multi-dimensional characters who have changed significantly as the show has gone on (some to a greater extent than others). When you look at them, I just don't see this as a problem with GoT at all. Last edited by KC_Connection; 04-30-2014 at 02:03 PM.. |
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04-30-2014, 01:58 PM | #1859 | |
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04-30-2014, 02:00 PM | #1860 |
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Here's the deal:
There are too many characters and plots to truly focus on the development of all of them while still moving things forward in the context of a television show. This is the fault of the source material and attempting to adapt it to the screen, not of the show. Silock's criticisms are valid in some ways, but invalid in that he's criticizing something beyond the control of the creators of the show. That being said, the creators of the show have done a damned fine job of adapting the source material.
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