Any fishkeepers here? Saltwater or freshwater

[IA_Chiefs_fan]

Years ago we owned a small pet store. During that experience I learned African cichlids offer the best balance of color/activity/survivability. Just do your homework and make sure the types you're getting are compatible. There are local clubs you can join and they even have swap meets and auctions. You can get MUCH healthier fish at these events than you can from any store, just because of all the travelling the fish go through prior to arriving at the retail location.

With my Africans I have a great filter and change 1/3 of the water every 10 days or so. I never check PH or anything else. The only fish I've killed were from a big heater stuck on. I now put two small heaters in my tanks so I'll have a little more time if one sticks on. My fish usually die from old age

[Molitoth]

Originally Posted by arrowheadnation

When I was in college I had a Black Rhombeus Piranha that I named Petey. I bought him when he was an inch long for $50. I sold him 4 years later when he was 7 inches long for $500 (included the tank). Some guy drove like 300 miles to pick it up. Man we got a lot of drunk entertainment out of him. In retrospect, it was morbid, but he shredded feeder fish like no ones business. Sometimes we would even buy a large goldfish just to watch him go to town on it. I used to have pics of him, but they vanished the last time my computer crashed....sigh*

My brother had a big ass piranha at one time for a couple years and it was extremely entertaining sometimes.

If I were to get a fish, it would surely be a piranha.

[Bwana]

I catch some and keep them in the deep freeze.

[Holladay]

A) Freshwater is easier than salt. I strongly disagree. Freshwater is cheaper than salt, but you'll never get as strong a biological filtration system in a freshwater tank. As a consequence, you need to change the water out to get the waste out well

I would suggest there are options available to prove otherwise. See my post #25 on Overengineered RFUGF. I dont know of anyother way to get 18 FT SQUARED in just one filter method.

[Holladay]

If you're wanting a freshwater tank with some fish variety, I would really recommend avoiding an Oscar. They're super aggressive, they'll tear the shit out of your tank, they eat/grow quickly, and they're messy. Everyone who starts off with an Oscar will eventually hate it when it grows into a giant asshole fish

Agreed as a non-starter fish, posted it because of its' color in defense of salt has more color.

I had Oscars for years and loved them.

Mostly I liked buying a dozen feeder goldfish and turning them loose into the tank... heh.

Brings back memories. Had a 12" Red Snakehead. His mouth cavity was 1/3 of his body. We'd starve him for a week then drop in a dozen feeder fish and take bets on how fast he could finish. Boy could he connect the dots

[Donger]

Do fish owners really refer to themselves as "fishkeepers"? That's neat. I wonder if that applies to other kinds of pets, too, and which ones.

Bee keeper, I guess.

[DJ's left nut]

Actually, with Cichlids, 'overcrowding' will generally lower aggression.

If there are a bunch of them in there, they will spend their time chasing each other around but they won't ever target and kill one. Think of it as something of a target rich environment that keeps any individual fish from getting pestered to death.

If you can get a good cichild setup and overfilter it a bit, creating a heavily rocked environment with a bunch of fish will be the most healthy and, IMO, attractive solution.

[Dr. Johnny Fever]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

Actually, with Cichlids, 'overcrowding' will generally lower aggression.

If there are a bunch of them in there, they will spend their time chasing each other around but they won't ever target and kill one. Think of it as something of a target rich environment that keeps any individual fish from getting pestered to death.

Do you know if the same can be said for Oscars? I had 5 in a tank before but after about a year I was down to one so I'm guessing the answer is no. This thread has me itching to get a new Oscar tank going.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by beer me

Do you know if the same can be said for Oscars? I had 5 in a tank before but after about a year I was down to one so I'm guessing the answer is no. This thread has me itching to get a new Oscar tank going.

I wouldn't think so.

I'm talking dozens of cichlids. I think the size of Oscars would prevent that.

I'm also referring to mostly the mbuna cichlids. Those are generally in the 3-5 inch range and have a short enough attention span to lose track of whatever it was they decided they hated. It kinda gets back to an earlier post regarding conspecifics; if a fish sees a similarly colored/shaped fish, it will decide that fish is competition and try to bully it. If that same fish sees a dozen conspecifics, it's simply going to motor around trying to chase as many as they can. At the same time, however, other stuff is going to be chasing it around as well. At that point, you mostly get a lot of movement and a lot of tiny little territories. The fish reach an uneasy truce where they'll briefly pursue each other and end up wandering into another territory and they'll get chased out of there. They'll forget why they're pissed, go back to their territory, rinse and repeat.

Some of the larger ones (Venustus and stuff) probably wouldn't be quite as receptive to the approach. I would imagine that oscars would run into the same issue. You just couldn't have enough of them to create a true 'maelstrom'.

[Dr. Johnny Fever]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

I wouldn't think so.

I'm talking dozens of cichlids. I think the size of Oscars would prevent that.

I'm also referring to mostly the mbuna cichlids. Those are generally in the 3-5 inch range and have a short enough attention span to lose track of whatever it was they decided they hated. It kinda gets back to an earlier post regarding conspecifics; if a fish sees a similarly colored/shaped fish, it will decide that fish is competition and try to bully it. If that same fish sees a dozen conspecifics, it's simply going to motor around trying to chase as many as they can. At the same time, however, other stuff is going to be chasing it around as well. At that point, you mostly get a lot of movement and a lot of tiny little territories. The fish reach an uneasy truce where they'll briefly pursue each other and end up wandering into another territory and they'll get chased out of there. They'll forget why they're pissed, go back to their territory, rinse and repeat.

Some of the larger ones (Venustus and stuff) probably wouldn't be quite as receptive to the approach. I would imagine that oscars would run into the same issue. You just couldn't have enough of them to create a true 'maelstrom'.

Ok thanks. I'd just really like to have a big red and a big albino in a tank but it proved too hard to do before.

[Silock]

So, I've been perusing Craigslist. Seems like there are a ton of deals on 100+ gal tanks.

I want to do freshwater, though. I want Dwarf Hairgrass to cover the bottom. I love the way it looks when it's all over. So lush and green.

And then I'm going to just put a bunch of schools of peaceful, non-aggressive fish in there, like Neon Tetras, mollies, danios, killfish, a betta, discus, fancy guppies, gouramis, and swordtails. I've had cichlids before in the same tank with barbs, and they did okay. So, with such a large tank, I might be able to get away with one or two, but if I do, they'll come dead last.

What kind of filtration system should I go with? And heater? I've been reading that I should probably stay away from an undergravel filter because of the size of the tank.

Does that sound like a good plan?

[Lumpy]

That's a start! You will need a pretty good light fixture to get your Dwarf Hairgrass to grow right. Depending on the size of the tank you get, a T5HO fixture should do the trick. The only problem is, if you go w/ a high wattage fixture like that, you would need to run a CO2 system or else you will have an algae bloom like you wouldn't believe!

A CO2 system is also expensive and can be too complex for beginners. Which is why I never went w/ CO2. I have a low-med light setup and dose a liquid form of CO2 called Excel. Originally I had a single T5 fixture, but I noticed that my plants were dying off. Then, last week, I added another T5 fixture and BOOYAH! they're taking off.

Planted tanks are a lot of fun, but if you're new to the hobby, it would be best to start out w/ low and move up to high. This way you can get a routine going w/ dosing fertilizers, and adjusting your photoperiod, (how much light exposure your plants will get during the day).

About your stock idea, it sounds good, except w/ the Mollies, Discus, and Cichlids.

Mollies are Brackish fish and may or may not do well in a freshwater tank. I had 3 Gold Dust Mollies in mine, and they did "ok", but they require a certain amount of salt in the water to keep them healthy. I would just substitute Mollies w/ Swordtails if you're looking at getting a nice group of livebearers.

As far as Discus, from what I hear, they can become aggressive and should be kept in a Discus only tank. The Cichlids in a community tank is a really bad idea. They are way too aggressive! Even if they don't technically "kill" any of your community fish, they could stress them out to the point where they could die.

Undergravel filters suck ass! Seriously! I had a partial UGF setup in my tank for about 4 months until I finally had it w/ the amount of crap/debris getting clogged beneath the grates. If you're looking at a tank larger than 75 gallons, I would suggest going w/ a Canister filter. Otherwise, there are some really nice Hang-On-Back filters. Just make sure that you get a filter that will accommodate your tank size.

Heaters are heaters, but just make damn sure it is made for your tank size. The best place to start would be to cruise the Petco/Petsmart sites and read reviews. While you're on the sites, you can also check out their fish and write down the names of the ones you like... then research away! Also, Petco has a compatibility table that will help guide you in your selection.

JFC! I wrote a damn novel!

Anyway, there's a lot to learn, but it sounds like you're motivated to get into the hobby. Just take things slow, research everything, let the info sink in, and never feel like an ass if you need to ask questions.

[Dr. Johnny Fever]

Originally Posted by Lumpy

That's a start! You will need a pretty good light fixture to get your Dwarf Hairgrass to grow right. Depending on the size of the tank you get, a T5HO fixture should do the trick. The only problem is, if you go w/ a high wattage fixture like that, you would need to run a CO2 system or else you will have an algae bloom like you wouldn't believe!

A CO2 system is also expensive and can be too complex for beginners. Which is why I never went w/ CO2. I have a low-med light setup and dose a liquid form of CO2 called Excel. Originally I had a single T5 fixture, but I noticed that my plants were dying off. Then, last week, I added another T5 fixture and BOOYAH! they're taking off.

Planted tanks are a lot of fun, but if you're new to the hobby, it would be best to start out w/ low and move up to high. This way you can get a routine going w/ dosing fertilizers, and adjusting your photoperiod, (how much light exposure your plants will get during the day).

About your stock idea, it sounds good, except w/ the Mollies, Discus, and Cichlids.

Mollies are Brackish fish and may or may not do well in a freshwater tank. I had 3 Gold Dust Mollies in mine, and they did "ok", but they require a certain amount of salt in the water to keep them healthy. I would just substitute Mollies w/ Swordtails if you're looking at getting a nice group of livebearers.

As far as Discus, from what I hear, they can become aggressive and should be kept in a Discus only tank. The Cichlids in a community tank is a really bad idea. They are way too aggressive! Even if they don't technically "kill" any of your community fish, they could stress them out to the point where they could die.

Undergravel filters suck ass! Seriously! I had a partial UGF setup in my tank for about 4 months until I finally had it w/ the amount of crap/debris getting clogged beneath the grates. If you're looking at a tank larger than 75 gallons, I would suggest going w/ a Canister filter. Otherwise, there are some really nice Hang-On-Back filters. Just make sure that you get a filter that will accommodate your tank size.

Heaters are heaters, but just make damn sure it is made for your tank size. The best place to start would be to cruise the Petco/Petsmart sites and read reviews. While you're on the sites, you can also check out their fish and write down the names of the ones you like... then research away! Also, Petco has a compatibility table that will help guide you in your selection.

JFC! I wrote a damn novel!

Anyway, there's a lot to learn, but it sounds like you're motivated to get into the hobby. Just take things slow, research everything, let the info sink in, and never feel like an ass if you need to ask questions.

I'm trying to decide if DJ's or Lumpy knows more on the subject at hand... it's a face off!

[Lumpy]

Originally Posted by beer me

I'm trying to decide if DJ's or Lumpy knows more on the subject at hand... it's a face off!

DJ definitely knows his shit! I think he has me beat though... I know absolutely nothing about Cichlids.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by Lumpy

DJ definitely knows his shit! I think he has me beat though... I know absolutely nothing about Cichlids.

Well much obliged, Lumpy.

I'll graciously concede that freshwater crown to you, though (or htismaqe w/ the late run). I know a fair amount about cichlids and that's about it. Everything else I just kinda chuck in there and hope they live.

When you have to cross your fingers and pray that your $100 Clown Tang starts eating in the 10 or so days it's going to have before it starves to death (and invariably it won't), you develop something of a callous attitude about the loss of a .99 cent molly. So I've not done nearly the homework I should on community fish.

And the plants are way above my head.