Which QB is better: Dak Prescott or Lamar Jackson?

[DaneMcCloud]

Originally Posted by Megatron96

Basically outside of his running ability, Lamar is a clean slate, with an enormous amount of potential, and not a lot of downside.

Lamar can't read a defense and can't throw outside the lines. His accuracy, especially 10+ yards, is awful and opposing defenses will continue to follow the Chiefs and Titans blueprint.

And while some teams don't have the defensive weapons or defensive coordinators bright enough to stop him, there are two teams in his division, the Steelers and Browns, that can definitely shut him down.

If Lamar can't read defenses, can't quickly process the defensive alignment, check out of bad plays and improve his accuracy, all of which were questioned before the 2018 draft, he's already hit his ceiling.

So far, I haven't seen him do any of the above.

[Megatron96]

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud

Lamar can't read a defense and can't throw outside the lines. His accuracy, especially 10+ yards, is awful and opposing defenses will continue to follow the Chiefs and Titans blueprint.

And while some teams don't have the defensive weapons or defensive coordinators bright enough to stop him, there are two teams in his division, the Steelers and Browns, that can definitely shut him down.

If Lamar can't read defenses, can't quickly process the defensive alignment, check out of bad plays and improve his accuracy, all of which were questioned before the 2018 draft, he's already hit his ceiling.

So far, I haven't seen him do any of the above.

Yep. But that's still an "if" or two in there. The point is we don't actually know he's peaked. With Dak we know.

[DaneMcCloud]

Originally Posted by Megatron96

Yep. But that's still an "if" or two in there. The point is we don't actually know he's peaked. With Dak we know.

How much more evidence do you need? It's not like Lamar can take "Smart Pills" in the off season to suddenly understand how to read defenses or check out of plays.

Most likely, Dak has reached his ceiling and if the Cowboys could play defense, they'd be 3-0 right now.

IMO, Dak is pretty much the same guy as Matt Ryan, except that unlike Ryan, Dak is mobile and can use his wheels to make plays, so if the Falcons can make it to the Super Bowl, I don't see any reason why Dak and Cowboys can't make it.

If the Cowboys can't figure out their defensive issues in the next few seasons, their current Super Bowl window will be closed and they'll be looking at a full on rebuild because their offensive line isn't getting any younger and without that protection, Dak turns into a pumpkin.

[Megatron96]

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud

How much more evidence do you need? It's not like Lamar can take "Smart Pills" in the off season to suddenly understand how to read defenses or check out of plays.

Most likely, Dak has reached his ceiling and if the Cowboys could play defense, they'd be 3-0 right now.

IMO, Dak is pretty much the same guy as Matt Ryan, except that unlike Ryan, Dak is mobile and can use his wheels to make plays, so if the Falcons can make it to the Super Bowl, I don't see any reason why Dak and Cowboys can't make it.

If the Cowboys can't figure out their defensive issues in the next few seasons, their current Super Bowl window will be closed and they'll be looking at a full on rebuild because their offensive line isn't getting any younger and without that protection, Dak turns into a pumpkin.

History is littered with 'running' QBs that eventually learned to read a defense. Cunningham eventually got better at it, so did Vick. Of course, plenty of them didn't as well.

But let's say Lamar doesn't get much better at the cerebral part of being a QB. He still owns the best record for a QB against the league, unless he plays the Chiefs. That means going to the playoffs nearly every season.

When's the last time Dak got into the post-season? How many consecutive seasons?

[dirk digler]

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud

How much more evidence do you need? It's not like Lamar can take "Smart Pills" in the off season to suddenly understand how to read defenses or check out of plays.

Most likely, Dak has reached his ceiling and if the Cowboys could play defense, they'd be 3-0 right now.

IMO, Dak is pretty much the same guy as Matt Ryan, except that unlike Ryan, Dak is mobile and can use his wheels to make plays, so if the Falcons can make it to the Super Bowl, I don't see any reason why Dak and Cowboys can't make it.

If the Cowboys can't figure out their defensive issues in the next few seasons, their current Super Bowl window will be closed and they'll be looking at a full on rebuild because their offensive line isn't getting any younger and without that protection, Dak turns into a pumpkin.

There is no guarantee Dak will be with the Cowboys next year either. I think it is going to be hard to sign him to a long term deal if they couldn't get it done this past offseason and his tag number is almost $38 million.

[mililo4cpa]

Originally Posted by Megatron96

Who's better right this minute? Dak, no question.

Thing is, Dak has peaked. This is Dak, for better or worse, you're getting exactly what you see here.

Lamar is still at least 50% potential. He could become a better pocket passer. He could learn to read defenses pre- and post-snap. He could learn to manipulate defenses.

Basically outside of his running ability, Lamar is a clean slate, with an enormous amount of potential, and not a lot of downside.

Couldn't disagree more:

Dak is who he is at this point....he's been around long enough in the pro game to learn the ropes

Lamar: He folds like a lawn chair when he is put in duress....that's mental, and nothing will ever change that.


EDIT: I misread your comment on Dak....we do agree there

[ThaVirus]

Originally Posted by mililo4cpa

Lamar: He folds like a lawn chair when he is put in duress....that's mental, and nothing will ever change that.

Come on, man. This is bullshit.

Lamar is only 24. He's 21-6 for his NFL career, which includes the two playoff losses. He's a Heisman winner and NFL MVP. He just had possibly the best dual-threat season a QB's ever had in this league and also one of the most efficient passing seasons.

Peyton Manning was drafted in 1998 and didn't win his first playoff game until 2003.

Give Jackson a little more time until we consider the book on him written..

[RealSNR]

Originally Posted by ThaVirus

Come on, man. This is bullshit.

Lamar is only 24. He's 21-6 for his NFL career, which includes the two playoff losses. He's a Heisman winner and NFL MVP. He just had possibly the best dual-threat season a QB's ever had in this league and also one of the most efficient passing seasons.

Peyton Manning was drafted in 1998 and didn't win his first playoff game until 2003.

Give Jackson a little more time until we consider the book on him written..

I’ll go ahead and say it.

Lamar is kind of dumb. 13 on his wonderlic? Yeah, the wonderlic is bullshit, but you in general want your QB’s score to be comfortably distant from Vince ****ing Young.

It’s not about the work or the effort either. He clearly puts in the grind, and I’ll bet it’s the same for him when in the film room. But I imagine it’s a lot tougher for him to study and learn this shit than it is for somebody like Mahomes, who scored in the mid 20s.

Again, I’m not saying the higher the score the better. Only that when you play QB, there probably exists a learning threshold where if you drop below... well, it’s going to be more difficult for you

[ThaVirus]

Originally Posted by RealSNR

I’ll go ahead and say it.

Lamar is kind of dumb. 13 on his wonderlic? Yeah, the wonderlic is bullshit, but you in general want your QB’s score to be comfortably distant from Vince ****ing Young.

It’s not about the work or the effort either. He clearly puts in the grind, and I’ll bet it’s the same for him when in the film room. But I imagine it’s a lot tougher for him to study and learn this shit than it is for somebody like Mahomes, who scored in the mid 20s.

Again, I’m not saying the higher the score the better. Only that when you play QB, there probably exists a learning threshold where if you drop below... well, it’s going to be more difficult for you

I hate to point to any sort of test to measure intelligence. It’s just so arbitrary and I feel like intelligence is too broad to be so easily defined.

Jackson scored a 13 which isn’t good but Dan Marino scored a 14 or 15, IIRC, and there weren’t ever any concerns over whether or not he could read defenses.

[treeguy27]

If I'm a GM I'd want Dak. Lamar is always going to be one hit away from being out for the season with his playing style.

[FloridaMan88]

Dak over Lamar Jackson.

There are at least 15 QB's I'd take in the NFL currently over Lamar Jackson.

[DJ's left nut]

Boy...that's a really good question.

I mean, your ceiling is higher with Jackson, I think. You can win a championship in a league that doesn't have Mahomes if you have a coach like Harbaugh that seems to always get great performances from his defenses and a guy like Roman who's schemed up a damn nice system to match Jackson's talents.

Whereas Dak's going to be a better fit for the vast majority of franchises. He's an easier guy to build a solid team around.

I don't think there's really a right answer here - it depends ultimately on your coaching staff.

If Mahomes wasn't a thing and Reid and crew were here? I think I'd go Dak and trust Reid to get him to be a little more aggressive. Reid would build an offense that works for Jackson but he'd wouldn't be able to put his exceptional ability to design route concepts to decent use then. He'd be essentially coaching with one hand behind his back.

Whereas I think he'd get Dak a slightly higher level than he had Alex.

[DRM08]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

Boy...that's a really good question.

I mean, your ceiling is higher with Jackson, I think. You can win a championship in a league that doesn't have Mahomes if you have a coach like Harbaugh that seems to always get great performances from his defenses and a guy like Roman who's schemed up a damn nice system to match Jackson's talents.

Whereas Dak's going to be a better fit for the vast majority of franchises. He's an easier guy to build a solid team around.

I don't think there's really a right answer here - it depends ultimately on your coaching staff.

If Mahomes wasn't a thing and Reid and crew were here? I think I'd go Dak and trust Reid to get him to be a little more aggressive. Reid would build an offense that works for Jackson but he'd wouldn't be able to put his exceptional ability to design route concepts to decent use then. He'd be essentially coaching with one hand behind his back.

Whereas I think he'd get Dak a slightly higher level than he had Alex.

Andy made Vick look pretty good as a passer in Philly. Lamar seems more accurate than Vick ever was. I think Andy would do very well with either one of these guys. He gets very good performance out of every QB he coaches. It’s extremely impressive.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by DRM08

Andy made Vick look pretty good as a passer in Philly. Lamar seems more accurate than Vick ever was. I think Andy would do very well with either one of these guys. He gets very good performance out of every QB he coaches. It’s extremely impressive.

It's funny - I think there's a real slight distinction between Jackson and Vick here. Jackson does throw a more catchable ball, but its in large part BECAUSE he lacked Vick's arm talent.

Vick just threw !@#$ing missiles and if he didn't hit you in the chest with it, they were just really hard to adjust to and haul in. Whereas Jackson kinda tosses these soft little wobble-launchers that guys can chase down and/or adjust to snag.

I don't think Jackson would be any better at throwing a football through a tire-swing than Vick. In fact, I think he'd be worse. But Vick's touch was just so damn bad (essentially non-existant) that he had to be razor sharp to get a catchable ball to you.

I almost think Reid's ability to create separation downfield makes him BETTER suited for Vick than it does Jackson because over distance, a WR can make the adjustment on a Vick pass that he can't make at 12 yards when it's coming at 100 mph. Whereas Jackson just can't put the ass on it to take advantage of those deep shots and advance route concepts.

Just a theory.

Jackson just seems like a more aggressive, less adept Alex Smith purely as a thrower. At a point there's just not a good enough foundation to work with there.

[PurpleRiders51]

Imo Daq.