Star Wars: Episode IX

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by Chiefspants

I will always contend that the real problems started with TFA.

How they didn't sit down and chart out the 3 movies with a unified vision is baffling to me. Especially with the success Marvel has seen by playing it that way.

JJ screwed things the moment he was allowed to make A New Hope Awakens.

I just don't agree. Ep VII was a knock off, sure. But it wasn't actively BAD. It didn't do anything to irreparably damage anything. It meandered and was little more than an origin story for the next wave of characters, but A New Hope was similar in that regard.

The problem is that where IV was followed by an amazing episode V, VII was followed by a shit VIII.

The problem, as you correctly identified, was the lack of a unified vision. That didn't HAVE to happen just because Abrams made a largely reductive re-boot in TFA. There was still a foundation for a great next episode there. But the man, what an absolute piece of shit they made instead.

[Chiefspants]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

I just don't agree. Ep VII was a knock off, sure. But it wasn't actively BAD. It didn't do anything to irreparably damage anything. It meandered and was little more than an origin story for the next wave of characters, but A New Hope was similar in that regard.

The problem is that where IV was followed by an amazing episode V, VII was followed by a shit VIII.

The problem, as you correctly identified, was the lack of a unified vision. That didn't HAVE to happen just because Abrams made a largely reductive re-boot in TFA. There was still a foundation for a great next episode there. But the man, what an absolute piece of shit they made instead.

I do agree that the bolded text is the Cardinal Sin over JJ's ripoff of ANH.

The only thing I'll add to the other point is that JJ's unoriginality put any writer into a box for 8. Everything was set up for 8 to be a reboot of ESB.

Rey (Luke) had found a master Jedi (Yoda)
Who was this mysterious figure leading the primary antagonist? (Emporer-Snoke).
The rebels were now on the run after destroying the StarKiller Death Star.

Poe and Finn were the wildcards, but as it turns out, their characters didn't have designed arcs in 7 (Hell, Poe was supposed to die in the first fifteen minutes of TFA), and their arcs overstuffed the story.

JJ also created very real problems for the next director. JJ fully intended on Luke to be a master of the force on par with Yoda... but if that were true - why would he let Han die and the entire resistance be shattered if Luke were truly a Jedi Master. Putting Luke into his favorite mystery box was a terrible mistake. How in the hell was it not a mandate to have a final scene with Luke, Han and Leia?

I do think that these things could have been solved if all three movies had been charted out - but they weren't, and all JJ seemed to do was soft reboot ANH and set up a reboot for ESB.

Anywho - I'm ranting. The hate many feel for TLJ is what I feel for TFA. Sure, it's a fine movie in a vacuum, but I think it was a terrible set-up when there was no unified vision for this series.