Doesn't look like such a hard task to rebuild the defense now, does it.

[Walt White]

Originally Posted by Chargem

Maybe I'm insane but I feel like Ford takes a non ridiculous contract.

The dream is Berry takes a restructure and Houston takes an AVV lowering extension which opens up enough cap to open up the FA market a bit more after the Hill and Jones extensions.

I wonder if Berry and Houston don't want to restructure if we will end up cutting or trading them? Wouldn't be a good idea without a replacement plan in place, but signing Ford, Hill, and Jones have to be priority.

What do you think is non ridiculous for Ford? I'm kind of mixed on it. Has he proven enough beyond one year to warrant a historic contract? At the same time, this defense especially can't afford to lose it's best players.

Ford and Hill are going to get their money. I just hope that it is something somewhat reasonable. That would help for the flexibility of the future and building on what we have.

[Chargem]

Originally Posted by Walt White

I wonder if Berry and Houston don't want to restructure if we will end up cutting or trading them? Wouldn't be a good idea without a replacement plan in place, but signing Ford, Hill, and Jones have to be priority.

What do you think is non ridiculous for Ford? I'm kind of mixed on it. Has he proven enough beyond one year to warrant a historic contract? At the same time, this defense especially can't afford to lose it's best players.

Ford and Hill are going to get their money. I just hope that it is something somewhat reasonable. That would help for the flexibility of the future and building on what we have.

I don't like cutting or trading either Berry or Houston (depending on the health outlook for Berry after surgery), In those situations the dead cap is just too large in my opinion. From memory the dead cap on Houston was around $7.5m per year, if you cut him you have $12.5m to spend on a replacement, I don't think you find someone to create his production for $12.5m in free agency.

On Ford, I think a non-ridiculous contract is $13-16m per year average.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by Chargem

I don't like cutting or trading either Berry or Houston (depending on the health outlook for Berry after surgery), In those situations the dead cap is just too large in my opinion. From memory the dead cap on Houston was around $7.5m per year, if you cut him you have $12.5m to spend on a replacement, I don't think you find someone to create his production for $12.5m in free agency.

On Ford, I think a non-ridiculous contract is $13-16m per year average.

Any agent is going to use 2 franchise seasons as the starting point; that's gonna be $16 and $20 million. So you're at $18 million/season right there.

I know many don't trust him and think he's a regression candidate - he may well be. But if we don't tag him and he hits the market, his demand will be HUGE. He may be the most sought after defensive player in all of free agency. His agent knows that and will set his demands accordingly.

If we got him at $16 million in AAV, we'd be damn lucky. I don't see it as being likely but I can still hope...

[The Franchise]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

Any agent is going to use 2 franchise seasons as the starting point; that's gonna be $16 and $20 million. So you're at $18 million/season right there.

I know many don't trust him and think he's a regression candidate - he may well be. But if we don't tag him and he hits the market, his demand will be HUGE. He may be the most sought after defensive player in all of free agency. His agent knows that and will set his demands accordingly.

If we got him at $16 million in AAV, we'd be damn lucky. I don't see it as being likely but I can still hope...

I know you talked about giving Ford an Ingram type deal with an uptick.

Something like 4 years and $70 million?

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by The Pest

I know you talked about giving Ford an Ingram type deal with an uptick.

Something like 4 years and $70 million?

That's pretty much exactly what I think it would cost and a deal I'd be willing to make. I would be nervous - you can't help but be on long-term deals - but I'd do it and he'd be the throughput for the next generation of Chiefs pass-rushers after 1 last season from Houston in 2019.

[The Franchise]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

That's pretty much exactly what I think it would cost and a deal I'd be willing to make. I would be nervous - you can't help but be on long-term deals - but I'd do it and he'd be the throughput for the next generation of Chiefs pass-rushers after 1 last season from Houston in 2019.

I'm all for signing Ford to that deal. Give Hill and Jones new deals and then MAYBE find one or two depth pieces (1 year deals) in FA to help out a couple of spots. Other than that....roll into the draft and improve the team that way.

Barring any major injuries....I think that makes us better than 12-4 next year.

[Chargem]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

Any agent is going to use 2 franchise seasons as the starting point; that's gonna be $16 and $20 million. So you're at $18 million/season right there.

I know many don't trust him and think he's a regression candidate - he may well be. But if we don't tag him and he hits the market, his demand will be HUGE. He may be the most sought after defensive player in all of free agency. His agent knows that and will set his demands accordingly.

If we got him at $16 million in AAV, we'd be damn lucky. I don't see it as being likely but I can still hope...

I know it's unlikely, but I keep trying to talk myself into the fact that comparisons with tags or other OLB contracts were based on multiple years of performance and Ford doesn't have that. Maybe you offer him $15m per year average now and say take that or risk the tag then maybe he takes the stability, or maybe for some reason he takes a marginal discount to stay in KC.

I would say though that DeMarcus Lawrence is the stand out edge rusher this off season, He's the guy going to get 18-20m AAV for sure

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by Chargem

I know it's unlikely, but I keep trying to talk myself into the fact that comparisons with tags or other OLB contracts were based on multiple years of performance and Ford doesn't have that. Maybe you offer him $15m per year average now and say take that or risk the tag then maybe he takes the stability, or maybe for some reason he takes a marginal discount to stay in KC.

I would say though that DeMarcus Lawrence is the stand out edge rusher this off season, He's the guy going to get 18-20m AAV for sure

He has the first season on the tag so a 2nd season on the tag starts at $20 million; that leverage will stand tall in negotiations so he'll get a little higher offer because his agent knows that the 'boys will still almost certainly tag him if they have to. They are a defense and running team - they can't let him go.