If the Chiefs took WR Christian Watson at 30…

[Chris Meck]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

I'm probably going Sam Williams and Travis Jones at that point.

There's ZERO reason to hem ourselves into WR at the back end of the first. Absolutely none whatsoever.

Okay, I don't get the Travis Jones love AT ALL.

He's a run plugger, he's not particularly explosive, he's just a big 'ole lump 'o dude there in the middle, a nose tackle, and I don't get it. AT ALL.

Wyatt I get; his athleticism projects in a way that he might well be a better pro than he was a college player.

hell, I get Winfrey.

I DO NOT get Jones, and I would NOT take Jones over taking a big swing on a kid like Watson. If THAT is what you want to spend a first on, I think you're bonkers.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by Chris Meck

Okay, I don't get the Travis Jones love AT ALL.

He's a run plugger, he's not particularly explosive, he's just a big 'ole lump 'o dude there in the middle, a nose tackle, and I don't get it. AT ALL.

Wyatt I get; his athleticism projects in a way that he might well be a better pro than he was a college player.

hell, I get Winfrey.

I DO NOT get Jones, and I would NOT take Jones over taking a big swing on a kid like Watson. If THAT is what you want to spend a first on, I think you're bonkers.

Among DTs he's in the 88th percentile in the 40, 77ths in the broad, 80th in the 3-cone.

You want to cite Christian Watson's athleticism at the combine then ignore the fact that Jones out-tests Leonard Williams literally across the board? Bigger, stronger, faster, quicker, more fluid.

I mean the board will dictate a lot of things. But even in an absolute worst case scenario circumstance, I wouldn't be taking Watson. He's nowhere close to my top 30 prospects. As I said previously he's maybe around my top 50 and even that is pushing it.

Jones is at that threshold level. It's close.

[Chris Meck]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

Among DTs he's in the 88th percentile in the 40, 77ths in the broad, 80th in the 3-cone.

You want to cite Christian Watson's athleticism at the combine then ignore the fact that Jones out-tests Leonard Williams literally across the board? Bigger, stronger, faster, quicker, more fluid.

I mean the board will dictate a lot of things. But even in an absolute worst case scenario circumstance, I wouldn't be taking Watson. He's nowhere close to my top 30 prospects. As I said previously he's maybe around my top 50 and even that is pushing it.

Jones is at that threshold level. It's close.

from NFL.Com:

Nose tackle with size and power that fuels his rumbling playing style. Jones lacks explosive get-off and hand twitch. He's unlikely to be a quick-win defender, but the anchor and upper-body power are present for gap-control duties once he gets his footwork and hand usage schooled up. He was a standout on a bad defense and more than held his own against the toughest competition he faced. Jones has the demeanor, traits and overall ability to become a successful run-plugger and potential starter in a two-gapping scheme.

That's not very exciting for a first rounder.

[The Franchise]

Originally Posted by Chris Meck

from NFL.Com:

Nose tackle with size and power that fuels his rumbling playing style. Jones lacks explosive get-off and hand twitch. He's unlikely to be a quick-win defender, but the anchor and upper-body power are present for gap-control duties once he gets his footwork and hand usage schooled up. He was a standout on a bad defense and more than held his own against the toughest competition he faced. Jones has the demeanor, traits and overall ability to become a successful run-plugger and potential starter in a two-gapping scheme.

That's not very exciting for a first rounder.

And here's Christian Watson's.

He plays hard and fast but needs to add a few more pounds and learn to impose his frame on the coverage. He's a field-stretching option requiring a linear route tree and projects as a capable WR3/4 with more work.

[Chris Meck]

Originally Posted by The Franchise

And here's Christian Watson's.

He plays hard and fast but needs to add a few more pounds and learn to impose his frame on the coverage. He's a field-stretching option requiring a linear route tree and projects as a capable WR3/4 with more work.

and yet, showed elite agility in combine tests, with top rated 3 cone. So no, I don't think so.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by Chris Meck

and yet, showed elite agility in combine tests, with top rated 3 cone. So no, I don't think so.

Okay.

So we're going to ignore Watson's scouting report and stand on his combine tests.

And ignore Jones combine tests while standing on his scouting report?

Feels like you're REALLY picking your spots here...

[Chris Meck]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

Okay.

So we're going to ignore Watson's scouting report and stand on his combine tests.

And ignore Jones combine tests while standing on his scouting report?

Feels like you're REALLY picking your spots here...

No I'm just pointing out that you've developed an irrational viewpoint when in reality you've said you might take Watson at #62. I'd take him at 50. So all this hyperbole is nonsense.

[duncan_idaho]

Originally Posted by The Franchise

And here's Christian Watson's.

He plays hard and fast but needs to add a few more pounds and learn to impose his frame on the coverage. He's a field-stretching option requiring a linear route tree and projects as a capable WR3/4 with more work.

That's one view of him.

The breakdown from the Draft Network is really detailed and worth reading (this includes them having eyes-on looks at him at the Senior Bowl).

https://thedraftnetwork.com/player/c...son/9ZZDrHRkOk

Their summary is:
Christian Watson is a very good athlete with good speed, agility, and excellent body control. For a taller receiver, he is surprisingly dynamic and displays the ability to consistently win against man coverage. In the passing game, he is extremely tough to cover. He can defeat press with foot quickness and has surprisingly good vertical speed. His home-run speed threatens a defender's cushion quickly. He does a good job of dropping his weight while displaying the separation quickness at the top of the route. He has a very good catch radius and is a matchup problem in contested-catch situations. He can contort his body to make tough catches and is dynamic with the football in his hands. In the NFL he is an outside receiver who projects with very good ability in the kicking game both as a returner and a core special teamer.

His agility also shows up in the way he moves after the catch. It's not just combine/workout stuff. He's a super fast guy (rocket up his butt, to borrow a term) who ALSO makes people miss with elusiveness (jukes, change-of-direction) and power (stiff arms and running through weak arm tackles).

[The Franchise]

Originally Posted by duncan_idaho

That's one view of him.

The breakdown from the Draft Network is really detailed and worth reading (this includes them having eyes-on looks at him at the Senior Bowl).

https://thedraftnetwork.com/player/c...son/9ZZDrHRkOk

Their summary is:
Christian Watson is a very good athlete with good speed, agility, and excellent body control. For a taller receiver, he is surprisingly dynamic and displays the ability to consistently win against man coverage. In the passing game, he is extremely tough to cover. He can defeat press with foot quickness and has surprisingly good vertical speed. His home-run speed threatens a defender's cushion quickly. He does a good job of dropping his weight while displaying the separation quickness at the top of the route. He has a very good catch radius and is a matchup problem in contested-catch situations. He can contort his body to make tough catches and is dynamic with the football in his hands. In the NFL he is an outside receiver who projects with very good ability in the kicking game both as a returner and a core special teamer.

His agility also shows up in the way he moves after the catch. It's not just combine/workout stuff. He's a super fast guy (rocket up his butt, to borrow a term) who ALSO makes people miss with elusiveness (jukes, change-of-direction) and power (stiff arms and running through weak arm tackles).

I was just pointing out that using NFL.com's draft profile to shoot down one player when NFL.com has the same shit about the other player isn't that great of an argument.

Here's Jones' report from the same website.

Travis Jones had offers from Boston College, Temple, Rutgers, and Buffalo but chose to stay close to home and play his college football at UConn where he developed into a highly-regarded team leader. Jones arrived on campus at 360 pounds with 30% body fat but has since dropped 30 pounds and reduced his body fat percentage to 13%. While Jones profiles best to a 1-technique/nose tackle role that provides most of his value on running downs, he is a terrific athlete for his size and has found ways to apply consistent pressure on the quarterback despite all of the challenging dynamics to consider within the Huskies defense. Jones is a stout run defender that frequently resets the line of scrimmage and is unselfish in how he takes on blocks, eats space, and keeps the second level clean. He is a strong processor against the run that is rarely out of his fit. As a pass rusher, Jones is an excellent pocket pusher that has active hands and the ability to power through rush angles. There are plenty of reasons to believe that under better circumstances and given his unique physical skill set and body transformation that he will be an even better pro than college player. He should immediately make an NFL run defense better and make the unit more stout.

[duncan_idaho]

Originally Posted by The Franchise

I was just pointing out that using NFL.com's draft profile to shoot down one player when NFL.com has the same shit about the other player isn't that great of an argument.

Here's Jones' report from the same website.

Travis Jones had offers from Boston College, Temple, Rutgers, and Buffalo but chose to stay close to home and play his college football at UConn where he developed into a highly-regarded team leader. Jones arrived on campus at 360 pounds with 30% body fat but has since dropped 30 pounds and reduced his body fat percentage to 13%. While Jones profiles best to a 1-technique/nose tackle role that provides most of his value on running downs, he is a terrific athlete for his size and has found ways to apply consistent pressure on the quarterback despite all of the challenging dynamics to consider within the Huskies defense. Jones is a stout run defender that frequently resets the line of scrimmage and is unselfish in how he takes on blocks, eats space, and keeps the second level clean. He is a strong processor against the run that is rarely out of his fit. As a pass rusher, Jones is an excellent pocket pusher that has active hands and the ability to power through rush angles. There are plenty of reasons to believe that under better circumstances and given his unique physical skill set and body transformation that he will be an even better pro than college player. He should immediately make an NFL run defense better and make the unit more stout.

Gotcha.

Personally, these are two guys that I really like as fits for the Chiefs. If the Chiefs draft includes both in its top 4 picks, I'd consider that to be a very successful one.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by Chris Meck

from NFL.Com:

Nose tackle with size and power that fuels his rumbling playing style. Jones lacks explosive get-off and hand twitch. He's unlikely to be a quick-win defender, but the anchor and upper-body power are present for gap-control duties once he gets his footwork and hand usage schooled up. He was a standout on a bad defense and more than held his own against the toughest competition he faced. Jones has the demeanor, traits and overall ability to become a successful run-plugger and potential starter in a two-gapping scheme.

That's not very exciting for a first rounder.

Same 20 yard shuttle time and better 40 time than Poe.

Would you question Poe's get-off?

I've always thought broad jump was an excellent indicator of lower body explosion. Remember how we fawned over Poe's? Jones was 5 inches BETTER.

I'll acknowledge that Watson is a hell of an athlete - the numbers clearly support it. The numbers also clearly support that Jones is a well above average athlete, bordering on a great one, for a DT.

[Chris Meck]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

Same 20 yard shuttle time and better 40 time than Poe.

Would you question Poe's get-off?

I've always thought broad jump was an excellent indicator of lower body explosion. Remember how we fawned over Poe's? Jones was 5 inches BETTER.

I'll acknowledge that Watson is a hell of an athlete - the numbers clearly support it. The numbers also clearly support that Jones is a well above average athlete, bordering on a great one, for a DT.

would I take Poe over a swing at a potentially great WR? NOPE.

[Woogieman]

Originally Posted by Chris Meck

from NFL.Com:

Nose tackle with size and power that fuels his rumbling playing style. Jones lacks explosive get-off and hand twitch. He's unlikely to be a quick-win defender, but the anchor and upper-body power are present for gap-control duties once he gets his footwork and hand usage schooled up. He was a standout on a bad defense and more than held his own against the toughest competition he faced. Jones has the demeanor, traits and overall ability to become a successful run-plugger and potential starter in a two-gapping scheme.

That's not very exciting for a first rounder.

Agree on Jones in the 1st...I would only consider Wyatt, and he has some very concerning off-field issues. I definitely want a DL, even 2, but not in Rnd 1 unless Wyatt falls, and that is still a "maybe". I could see a DL in the 3rd or 4th, and maybe use 7th to trade u to get a Wild Card like Eric Johnson from Missouri State