Chiefs Attacking kneeldowns: good football or bad sportsmanship? - Page 5

**Rain Man** · 01:23 PM

I was getting annoyed on the Chiefs' last possession, the one where we had the ball on our own five with a minute left and were just doing kneeldowns.

On every kneeldown, the Patriots would create a big pileup by diving into our linemen.

It annoyed me because it's not going to work 999 times out of 1000. The general protocol of football is that if a team is kneeling down you let them do it because the game is essentially over. It's tradition, and it's generally frowned upon to do otherwise. (See Tom Nalen diving into Igor Olshansky's knees as an example.)

The Patriots were crashing hard into our linemen on every one of those kneeldowns even though Patrick was pulling off some of the greatest kneeldowns I've ever seen. Did you notice that? He was down in a split second and moving back. He may be the most talented kneeldown quarterback I've ever seen.

Having said all of that, the game ain't over until the final gun goes off, or Brady's bedtime, whichever comes first. If diving into the line works 1 time out of 1000, that's one extra game you're going to win. So it's good practice to do it from a pure win-loss perspective.

It makes me think that there should be a rule change to automatically take the clock down at the end of the game and the defending team can stop it by taking time outs, since kneeldowns are for the most part boring from a game perspective. Why should the league risk the knees of a Patriots player flying into them on a play that's essentially meaningless.

But back to the point. Was it good football that that Patriots were attacking our kneeldowns or bad sportsmanship?

Poll coming if I can keep Donta Hightower from diving into it.

**cdcox** · 12-09-2019, 10:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mile High Mania

Uh huh... and if situations were reversed, you would be loving it.

Not really. Injuries are part of the game, but they are not a desirable part of the game. They reduce enjoyment, competitiveness, and do real harm to the players. The NFL has shown a willingness to change certain kinds of plays (kickoffs, onside kicks) to reduce the chance of injury. In this case, the kneel down is about the least interesting play in football. I think it is more likely that a Chief player could get injured on such a play than us winning a game. The value proposition of every team smashing into the line during kneel downs is negative for the game.

DTVietnam · 12-09-2019, 11:44 PM

Rivers play wasnt a victory formation kneel down..it was a tie game and he was either going to kneel it or sneak it to get a centered field goal. .and some time off the clock

**TimeForWasp** · 12-10-2019, 03:48 AM

Rasputin · 12-10-2019, 05:20 AM

It's only good football when we do it but it's bad sportsmanship when other teams do it to us

StockingAnarchy12 · 12-10-2019, 05:33 AM

Has any team ever fumbled and lost possession on a kneel down?

**Bearcat** · 12-10-2019, 07:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chief Roundup

Yeah or you know they could just pad their stats and make the other team look even worse, again the idea comes from mercy and honor.

That wasn't my point... they're winning, of course they just want the game to be over. Why would the team that's losing simply agree to that?

The team that's winning generally wants to keep winning... the team that's losing generally wants to find a way to win. And if that way to win doesn't include injuring the other team or trying to draw penalties or otherwise cheat, there's nothing unsportsmanlike about trying to win.

oldman · 12-10-2019, 08:03 AM

I believe the correct answer is "Any time Bill Belecheat scowls, a 15 yard penalty for unsportsman like conduct will be enforced" . But that's just my opinion.
Back to the original question, in this instance, no. There was a possibility of a bad snap or false start which would have moved our team back. If it would have been close enough to the endzone, a kneel down might result in a safety and the chance to win the game. Now if the scum Pats were intentionally trying to injure one of our guys, then a 15 yard foul should have been called, ball moved, a hefty fine levied for all involved, and suspensions given, end of discussion, end of game.

Chief Roundup · 12-10-2019, 12:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by StockingAnarchy12

Has any team ever fumbled and lost possession on a kneel down?

How old are you?
The most obvious for a Chiefs fan is when we took one away from Phyllis, cry me a, Rivers for a TD.

StockingAnarchy12 · 12-10-2019, 02:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chief Roundup

How old are you?
The most obvious for a Chiefs fan is when we took one away from Phyllis, cry me a, Rivers for a TD.

I am a Patriots fan who comes here on occasion.

Was just generally curious. Since its happened I guess I can see the point of trying to recover it, but also agree that it can be seen as basically pointless because the chances are so minimal. I think during one Patriots game in maybe 2009 or so they almost recovered one but thats it.

Megatron96 · 12-10-2019, 02:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by crayzkirk

Personally, I don't like the kneel down rule. Play until the game is over. Make the other team earn it. How is it any different than any other play? Same with spiking the ball; to me, that's garbage.

Spiking the ball? Please explain.

Mahomie · 12-10-2019, 03:17 PM

It was pure frustration.

Pablo · 12-10-2019, 06:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bugeater

My irrational hatred for the Patriots says it's shitty and should be penalized and every player ejected and the fans lined up and executed and the franchise folded.

Any other team....I'm ok with it.

That all seems reasonable to me.

**Bearcat** · 12-10-2019, 07:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Megatron96

Spiking the ball? Please explain.

I could see spiking as a cheap exception to intentional grounding. I believe the wording of the rule mentions the avoidance of a loss of yardage, but spiking is literally the intentional act of grounding the ball. It's at least a small stretch to say it's okay in that situation as opposed to any other time a QB is in the pocket.

OTOH, I think it would be silly to say kneeling isn't allowed... at any time, a QB can fall into the fetal position and wait for a defender to touch him, so there's really no difference besides the time it would take to touch the QB, which would benefit the offense even more.

View Poll Results: Attacking kneeldowns in the victory formation. What's your opinion?
Football is a 60-minute game. If it gives you a chance to win, you obviously do it.	18	15.65%
You should do it to try to win, but the injury risk may outweigh the reward.	6	5.22%
I'm neutral. I'm usually in the bathroom when the kneeldowns occur anyway.	2	1.74%
I'll deal with it if someone does it, because the game's not over. But it's kind of stupid.	20	17.39%
It's poor sportsmanship. Class up and acknowledge that you've lost.	64	55.65%
Kneeldowns shouldn't happen anyway. Keep attacking because scoring is the eighth or ninth tiebreaker for the playoffs.	5	4.35%
Voters: 115. You may not vote on this poll

12-09-2019, 01:18 PM
Rain Man NFL's #1 Ermines Fan Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: My house Casino cash: $3278491 VARSITY	Attacking kneeldowns: good football or bad sportsmanship? I was getting annoyed on the Chiefs' last possession, the one where we had the ball on our own five with a minute left and were just doing kneeldowns. On every kneeldown, the Patriots would create a big pileup by diving into our linemen. It annoyed me because it's not going to work 999 times out of 1000. The general protocol of football is that if a team is kneeling down you let them do it because the game is essentially over. It's tradition, and it's generally frowned upon to do otherwise. (See Tom Nalen diving into Igor Olshansky's knees as an example.) The Patriots were crashing hard into our linemen on every one of those kneeldowns even though Patrick was pulling off some of the greatest kneeldowns I've ever seen. Did you notice that? He was down in a split second and moving back. He may be the most talented kneeldown quarterback I've ever seen. Having said all of that, the game ain't over until the final gun goes off, or Brady's bedtime, whichever comes first. If diving into the line works 1 time out of 1000, that's one extra game you're going to win. So it's good practice to do it from a pure win-loss perspective. It makes me think that there should be a rule change to automatically take the clock down at the end of the game and the defending team can stop it by taking time outs, since kneeldowns are for the most part boring from a game perspective. Why should the league risk the knees of a Patriots player flying into them on a play that's essentially meaningless. But back to the point. Was it good football that that Patriots were attacking our kneeldowns or bad sportsmanship? Poll coming if I can keep Donta Hightower from diving into it. Last edited by Rain Man; 12-09-2019 at 01:23 PM..
Posts: 141,476

12-09-2019, 11:44 PM	#62
DTVietnam Veteran Join Date: May 2018 Casino cash: $9520400	Rivers play wasnt a victory formation kneel down..it was a tie game and he was either going to kneel it or sneak it to get a centered field goal. .and some time off the clock
Posts: 2,116

12-10-2019, 03:48 AM	#63
TimeForWasp Sprinkle in some Mahomes Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Butte Montana Casino cash: $7678507	__________________ Posted via Slingshot using Rocks eBay sniper
Posts: 8,270	1 0

12-10-2019, 05:20 AM	#64
Rasputin Tip of the hat LIV Champs Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: ks Casino cash: $3445421	It's only good football when we do it but it's bad sportsmanship when other teams do it to us
Posts: 54,965

12-10-2019, 05:33 AM	#65
StockingAnarchy12 Starter Join Date: Jan 2019 Casino cash: $9990400	Has any team ever fumbled and lost possession on a kneel down?
Posts: 186

12-10-2019, 08:03 AM	#67
oldman Curmudgeon Join Date: Dec 2011 Location: North by Northwest Casino cash: $5836784	I believe the correct answer is "Any time Bill Belecheat scowls, a 15 yard penalty for unsportsman like conduct will be enforced" . But that's just my opinion. Back to the original question, in this instance, no. There was a possibility of a bad snap or false start which would have moved our team back. If it would have been close enough to the endzone, a kneel down might result in a safety and the chance to win the game. Now if the scum Pats were intentionally trying to injure one of our guys, then a 15 yard foul should have been called, ball moved, a hefty fine levied for all involved, and suspensions given, end of discussion, end of game.
Posts: 5,319

12-10-2019, 03:17 PM	#71
Mahomie Rookie Join Date: Dec 2019 Casino cash: $10000400	It was pure frustration.
Posts: 10