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Old 06-26-2013, 07:16 AM  
alnorth alnorth is offline
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SCOTUS Gay Marriage Opinions

DOMA - Federal law which allows one state to refuse to recognize a marriage from another state, and which federally bans gay marriage.

Section 3 of DOMA is unconstitutional. The rest of DOMA still remains. This means that federal law must recognize same-sex marriage, but since Section 2 remains standing, states are still free to refuse to recognize a marriage from another state. That will likely be challenged in a future court case.

5-4 decision, Kennedy and the 4 liberals. The conservatives are split with 3 dissents.


Prop 8 - California Gay Marriage ban.

The 9th circuit appeal is dismissed due to lack of standing. We now know definitively that if the state government refuses to defend a state proposition, the prop sponsers can still go to court, but they can not appeal if they lose. The decision by the 9th circuit is also gone. Judge Vaughn Walker's ruling stands, and is final. Gay Marriage is legal in CA.

5-4 decision, Roberts, Scalia, and 3 of the liberals. Kennedy, Alito, Thomas, and Sotomayor would have found standing and proceeded to the merits. The question on whether a fundamental right to gay marriage exists countrywide will have to wait for another day.

Last edited by alnorth; 06-26-2013 at 09:38 AM..
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Old 06-26-2013, 09:29 AM   #31
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Gays marrying will not impact any straight person's marriage in any way, shape, or form unless they or their partner are a closeted homosexual who comes out and ends the charade. End of story.

So while you might have a personal preference to not see gay marriage legalized and normalized, that is different from how the government can and cannot treat it.
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Old 06-26-2013, 09:29 AM   #32
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I would say if your state passes a law recognizing that as a legal marriage, the Federal government should recognize it as well. Its a state level issue and thats how it should be.
Indeed.
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Old 06-26-2013, 09:31 AM   #33
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That's a separate issue though. If they are going to hand them out, they should go to anyone that applies.
Exactly.
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Old 06-26-2013, 09:34 AM   #34
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OK, here's the impression I get from the DOMA dissents. I was wrong, it looks like there are only 2 votes to dismiss due to standing, the other 7 found standing.

Chief Justice Roberts - No standing to appeal. Doesn't say much one way or another on whether DOMA is unconstitutional, but he does disagree with some of the majority opinion that describes the congressional action as being driven by animus.

Scalia - No standing to appeal. If there was standing, DOMA is constitutional.

Thomas and Alito - The house republicans had standing to appeal, and DOMA is constitutional.
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Old 06-26-2013, 09:36 AM   #35
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Old 06-26-2013, 09:36 AM   #36
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The tax issue here related to estate taxes. One spouse died and the other had to pay estate taxes.
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Old 06-26-2013, 09:39 AM   #37
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Originally Posted by alnorth View Post
The question on whether a fundamental right to gay marriage exists countrywide will have to wait for another day.[/color][/b]
No it doesn't wait for another day. Or it shouldn't. It's not a federal matter.
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Old 06-26-2013, 09:41 AM   #38
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I think it's bullshit. The Government shouldn't be handing out tax credits for spouses to begin with.
Well, we should get rid of the IRS and this issue goes away. While we're at it, no pensions or healthcare for govt officials. They're there to serve not have a job with benefits.
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Old 06-26-2013, 09:43 AM   #39
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Gays marrying will not impact any straight person's marriage in any way, shape, or form unless they or their partner are a closeted homosexual who comes out and ends the charade. End of story.
Gays not marrying will not impact any straight person's marriage in any way ....
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Old 06-26-2013, 09:44 AM   #40
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Old 06-26-2013, 09:44 AM   #41
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Gays not marrying will not impact any straight person's marriage in any way ....
I agree.
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Old 06-26-2013, 09:50 AM   #42
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Kennedy's opinion is very interesting. It starts out talking about DOMA violating Federalism principles, which is kinda what I expected. If DOMA were struck down only because of that, then the decision would be agnostic with regard to the bigger question on whether gay marriage bans should be unconstitutional due to equal protection.

But then, for some reason he then starts discussing how gays are an unpopular group and that the law must meet higher standards, etc. He stopped just short of erecting a neon blinking sign saying "gays deserved heightened scrutiny". It was really not necessary, he could have just ruled on federalism and let Ginsberg write a concurrence if she wanted and be done with it, but Kennedy chose to basically telegraph how he feels about gays.

That entire, long section IV in Kennedy's opinion did not need to be written, he had enough to reach his decision through section III, but he chose to go there anyway.

Unless I'm reading something into it that doesn't exist, gay marriage bans appear to be doomed, its just a matter of time for a case with standing to reach his eager pen and paper.
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Old 06-26-2013, 09:53 AM   #43
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I agree.
Right, so since it won't impact my marriage either way why would I care if gays were allowed to marry? Why would I pay any attention to their "rights" if it doesn't even impact me?
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Old 06-26-2013, 09:56 AM   #44
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Gay Americans getting married will impact everyone (both in a negative and positive way, which are points of view). We just don't know how exactly. Saying is doesn't is naive, but then we'd have to get into a discussion about open and closed systems and I don't think some of you have the ability to converse on it.
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Old 06-26-2013, 10:00 AM   #45
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